I need an exit strategy

[desitrader]

*Warning: Rambling post ahead*

This subject has been discussed to death, and I myself have read through tons of related threads in all forums I could think of.

Background:
For the first two years of using the sentence method to learn German, I used only German-to-English cards. Then I noticed that while most of the cards were pretty easy and I was going through my review in no time, I couldn’t say one coherent German sentence apart from the most basic.

So I started moving mature cards to an English-to-German deck, to simulate an environment where I have to speak. These are mature cards, i.e. I had already seen them a fair few times --- so it was now fair to expect myself to produce them. I have done this for four years, and now I can hold a reasonable conversation in non-techie general topics with any native German.

I have replicated the same method on other European languages, and it works.

The problem:
The problem I now have is massive Anki decks, and I don’t have an end game. I shudder to think that I have to do my Anki reps every day for the rest of my life – for an increasing number of languages.

“Well stop using Anki then” --- I hear you say. Yes, I have thought of it many times – trust me. I am worried that I’ll lose my active skills over time. I am worried that I’ll forget all the ‘difficult’ words and all the different scenarios I have learned through the sentences I have cherry-picked with great care.

I can and do sometimes speak to myself in TL, but I have to make a conscious effort for that and it’s draining. I’d like to stop doing that too.

This is what my dream learning method would be:

Passive listening all day, with some active TV / Youtube watching in L2. L3,… etc. in the evening.
Extensive reading whenever possible.
No use of any mnemonic whatsoever --- no SRS, no word list, no notebook, no journal --- just native media.
No conscious effort on any kind of active practice – not even making an effort to speaking to oneself. (If however I naturally find myself thinking in L2, L3,… etc., that’s fine --- in fact that’s very good).

In short, pure fun and no studying whatsoever.

Even though my dream learning method is entirely input-based, I'd like to be able to produce exactly when I am needed to --- as if by magic. I don't want to be in a "Damn, what's that word? I had it in my sentence deck" scenario.

The question:
Should I give my dream learning method a try? Is it worth the risk? Or am I going to lose all my active skill and come back to Anki and my current method with my tail between my legs? Please remember when replying that I am learning multiple languages.

PS. This question is for European languages only. I also learn Japanese, and for that I do need Anki --- I fully accept that.

[language2015]

*Warning: Rambling post ahead*

This subject has been discussed to death, and I myself have read through tons of related threads in all forums I could think of.

Background:
For the first two years of using the sentence method to learn German, I used only German-to-English cards. Then I noticed that while most of the cards were pretty easy and I was going through my review in no time, I couldn’t say one coherent German sentence apart from the most basic.

So I started moving mature cards to an English-to-German deck, to simulate an environment where I have to speak. These are mature cards, i.e. I had already seen them a fair few times --- so it was now fair to expect myself to produce them. I have done this for four years, and now I can hold a reasonable conversation in non-techie general topics with any native German.

I have replicated the same method on other European languages, and it works.

The problem:
The problem I now have is massive Anki decks, and I don’t have an end game. I shudder to think that I have to do my Anki reps every day for the rest of my life – for an increasing number of languages.

“Well stop using Anki then” --- I hear you say. Yes, I have thought of it many times – trust me. I am worried that I’ll lose my active skills over time. I am worried that I’ll forget all the ‘difficult’ words and all the different scenarios I have learned through the sentences I have cherry-picked with great care.

I can and do sometimes speak to myself in TL, but I have to make a conscious effort for that and it’s draining. I’d like to stop doing that too.

This is what my dream learning method would be:

Passive listening all day, with some active TV / Youtube watching in L2. L3,… etc. in the evening.
Extensive reading whenever possible.
No use of any mnemonic whatsoever --- no SRS, no word list, no notebook, no journal --- just native media.
No conscious effort on any kind of active practice – not even making an effort to speaking to oneself. (If however I naturally find myself thinking in L2, L3,… etc., that’s fine --- in fact that’s very good).

In short, pure fun and no studying whatsoever.

Even though my dream learning method is entirely input-based, I'd like to be able to produce exactly when I am needed to --- as if by magic.

The question:
Should I give my dream learning method a try? Is it worth the risk? Or am I going to lose all my active skill and come back to Anki with my tail between my legs? Please remember when replying that I am learning multiple languages.

PS. This question is for European languages only. I also learn Japanese, and for that I do need Anki --- I fully accept that.

Put a limit on the amount of reviews you do a day on anki for your stronger languages.

Just learn 10 new cards and review 50 old cards for German a day and then use the rest of your time doing what you want with German.

This way you can have your cake and eat it too.

Also The more reps you do the longer the intervals between reviews. Soon you'll see that anki will set the date of of your next review 1 or 2 years from now. Massive study sessions will not be the norm.

Hell, just put a cap on your daily reviews and then set the total of new cards to zero and then start enjoying life in german.

Keep up the good work tho.

[reineke]

Have you tried engaging in spontaneous conversations with native speakers?

[iguanamon]

I'll preface this response by saying that I am not advocating that any learner stop using SRS. Since you asked...

...“Well stop using Anki then” --- I hear you say. Yes, I have thought of it many times – trust me. I am worried that I’ll lose my active skills over time. I am worried that I’ll forget all the ‘difficult’ words and all the different scenarios I have learned through the sentences I have cherry-picked with great care. I can and do sometimes speak to myself in TL, but I have to make a conscious effort for that and it’s draining. I’d like to stop doing that too.

I have never used srs, memrize, quizlet or anki in my language-learning, so, it is possible to do without them. Granted, one can say that I only learn cognate languages, still, I have managed to learn.

This is what my dream learning method would be:

Passive listening all day, with some active TV / Youtube watching in L2. L3,… etc. in the evening.
Extensive reading whenever possible.
No use of any mnemonic whatsoever --- no SRS, no word list, no notebook, no journal --- just native media.
No conscious effort on any kind of active practice – not even making an effort to speaking to oneself. (If however I naturally find myself thinking in L2, L3,… etc., that’s fine --- in fact that’s very good).

In short, pure fun and no studying whatsoever.

That's definitely possible. and I do a lot of that in my learning- no srs; no wordlists to study. I do consult a good grammar book often and I look up words I don't know in either a monolingual or bilingual dictionary. I also speak with and write to people- not every day (except for Spanish) but often enough to consolidate things and keep my skills alive.

Even though my dream learning method is entirely input-based, I'd like to be able to produce exactly when I am needed to --- as if by magic. I don't want to be in a "Damn, what's that word? I had it in my sentence deck" scenario.

Perfectionism has been the ruin of many language-learners, fear of losing the word for toothpick or streetlight in a language. If you know how to ask for that word, if your vocabulary and skills are developed enough to ask for it when you need it then you'll get it and may remember it or not. Does it really matter if you don't retain the word for crown moulding? For a long time, I've thought that the first sentence taught in a course should be "How do you say X in Y language". Most of us here who are self-learning languages live far from TL speakers/countries. Yet, people in this same situation still manage to do output/communicate/converse electronically with native-speakers through email, twitter, facebook, skype, hellotalk, lang 8 and other platforms- including this forum. I find it more enjoyable and useful than just talking to myself, personally, though I do find self-tak to be important... ymmv.

Should I give my dream learning method a try? Is it worth the risk? Or am I going to lose all my active skill and come back to Anki with my tail between my legs? Please remember when replying that I am learning multiple languages.

Yes, give it a try. You'll never know if it will work for you until you do. Have a look at Expugnator's log and his method. He doesn't use Anki and studies multiple languages simultaneously. Your limiting factor is time. The more languages you have at a low level, the harder it will be and the less time you will be able to devote to each one. I, speaking only for myself, couldn't have more than one language at a beginner level. I, personally, would find it extremely difficult and mentally exhausting to do.

This question is for European languages only. I also learn Japanese, and for that I do need Anki --- I fully accept that.

Expug also learns Mandarin without using srs, so, again... it's possible.

[DangerDave2010]

Actually, you need a reading strategy.

[desitrader]

Actually, you need a reading strategy.

I love your one liners dude, I really do . But you have to elaborate that a little for me.

[desitrader]

Have you tried engaging in spontaneous conversations with native speakers?

I go to a German group once a month and it has a few native speakers. Apart from that I don't have any Germans around me. I try to visit Germany once a year, which gives me some speaking practice. I really dislike talking to people over Skype.

[DangerDave2010]

I mean that it sounded to me that your poor skills are probably due to an insufficient amount of reading.

But I can't really give you any concrete advice.

[tarvos]

I think you need to ditch SRS. Once those kind of things stop working their magic, switch it up and start reading. Find the equivalent German material of what you would read in English and work your way through that. Make sure you have opportunities to speak or communicate with people - it doesn't have to be voice chat, text chat already does wonders (trust me on this, I basically learned Russian through text chat).

You do not need SRS - I rarely use SRS if at all and I usually end up speaking just fine. SRS is a vocabulary learning technique, but vocabulary learning is only one aspect of your learning. You need to train your other skills if you want to become more well-rounded.

[Mooby]

I agree with tarvos.
Anki is just the scaffolding. Once the house is built there's no need to keep the scaffolding - it's time to inhabit the house (i.e use the language).

At some point I'll stop Anki reviews, but keep the deck for occasional reference.