French In Action, as a learning device?

[aokoye]

I noted that the audio
French in Action Digital Audio Program, Part 1: Second Edition (Yale Language Series)
costs $188.13 - $200.00.

Has anyone actually bought it?

I simply can't afford that.

Middlebury College has it on their website for free - link. They put it up a year or two ago and while you need an account a guest account does give you access. Given that it's Middlebury I think it's safe to assume they've put it up legally.

[Carmody]

Thanks so much.

[Carmody]

Just to note that Lawrence Wylie, whom I have referred to above, is shown talking at 20 mins. into the 1st episode that Middlebury has posted.

However, his comments in the clip are very limited and it is only in the Foreward to the book that he goes into the detail that is so very interesting.

More on the man:

His obituary:
http://www.nytimes.com/1995/07/26/obitu ... -soul.html

One of his books:
https://www.amazon.com/Fran%C3%A7ais-3r ... 0130307742

[PeterMollenburg]

Carmody,

The 1987 version of the book is the 1st edition.

The version I have is the 2nd edition, I believe it contains the information you are curious about.... i'll take a look and get back to you.

"I have found it interesting but am not sure if the absence of the teaching of any grammar should be a concern."

If you came to this conclusion, then I'm under the impression that you didn't use the the two workbooks and the vast amount of accompanying audio; those are two big workbooks that focus a lot on grammar. If you did use those books and found that it was still lacking in grammar, then all I can suggest is working with other grammar books for practice, but as a whole I found FIA (the whole course, not just the videos and dialogues) to be one of the best language courses I've ever encountered. With that said, it's expansiveness is truly great, but the sheer size of the course is also very intimidating, which is why I think a lot of people only use the videos and get their grammar work in from other books.


Peter M seems to have spent a lot more time with that course than most people I know, so I'm sure if he see's this thread that he'll stop by and leave some input.

I agree Fortheo. The workbooks in my opinion take up 75 to 85% of the workload. They are indeed the meat. The study guides can be used as English guidance and further detail on the French only grammar activities found in the workbooks, but they are strictly not necessary- they are really for the pedagogical learner that wants to not miss any detail whastsoever. The workbooks basically provide all the behind the scenes hard work (ie grammar) that the videos show in immersion style. The videos are both the preliminary presenation of what's to come in a given lesson, that is what you are to study/learn/master in detail via the workbooks in conjuction with the audio which focuses on the very things presented at normal conversational speed in the videos. Once mastered the material in the workbook, watching the video at least one more time will provide more clarity on the grammatical constructs and vocabulary used within the video episode. The textbooks provide a printed transcript, key vocabularly and additional authentic French literature and cultural documents which have accompanying exercises in the workbook.

Edit: Carmody, I have sent you a PM which may help with your queries regarding FIA

[Carmody]

Peter

Thank you very much for your guidance re the FIA course work; it is much needed and greatly appreciated.

How successful did you find the course? It aims at elementary and intermediate college level proficiency. Did you do the entire course, and if so what were its strengths and weaknesses?

Your list of languages suggests you are a real polyglot, while I confess I am not. However, I do find it important to be very efficient in my language learning efforts. For any book, methodology or class I take I always try to evaluate it in terms of Ratio of Time Spent to Information Learned. By keeping that Ratio in mind I am able to see if the time invested is worthwhile. Do you have a sense of the efficacy of Ratio of Time Spent to Information Learned for the FIA course?

Thank you again.

[PeterMollenburg]

Hi again Carmody,

The forward by Laurence Wylie...

Well, it can be a fascinating topic- how we use much more than language to communicate- body language, heat, proximity between individuals, facial expressions, shrugs, glazes, eye movements etc. But is there something you wanted to discuss specifically? I don't currently find it all that fascinating to be perfectly honest. I'm more intrigued by the French verbal language than the use of body language and how it differs from culture to culture. Perhaps like others really enjoy reading books, where I prefer courses, I prefer to observe unconsciously mostly the body language of others than to study it, discuss it in detail per sé... sorry if that dissapoints. Perhaps you agree, and i've just misunderstood. Not sure..

Peter

Thank you very much for your guidance re the FIA course work; it is much needed and greatly appreciated.

How successful did you find the course? It aims at elementary and intermediate college level proficiency. Did you do the entire course, and if so what were its strengths and weaknesses?

Your list of languages suggests you are a real polyglot, while I confess I am not. However, I do find it important to be very efficient in my language learning efforts. For any book, methodology or class I take I always try to evaluate it in terms of Ratio of Time Spent to Information Learned. By keeping that Ratio in mind I am able to see if the time invested is worthwhile. Do you have a sense of the efficacy of Ratio of Time Spent to Information Learned for the FIA course?

Thank you again.

If you want fast results I wouldn't use it. It's for those who want a comprehensive introduction to French. I think to get there faster, do shorter courses, but if you want a comprehensive one as well that's more efficient, then throw in FSI or DLI French to get you used to producing all kinds of French sentences in all kinds of various accepted sentence order.

For fast results for a beginner i'd use Assimil New French with Ease in concert with another course like Hugo French in 3 Months which is very pragmatic and goes straight to the main points. If you can add audio courses while travelling to and from work (you're retired?) or some other frequent trip, use Pimsleur in my opinion. Those three courses will get you past the basics quickly- one course for enjoyment/immersion, one for grammar (hugo), one for pronunciation (if you have room- in those wasted travelling moments). And if you want something for drilling then FSI, DLI or perhaps Glossika. FIA's downfall is it's comprehensive nature. It's a fantastic course but i'm not so sure it will provide efficient results.

However in my first use of the course, it was the first French course I'd tried and I went through to lesson 26 (half way), and at that point I was able to hold some lengthy conversations with French people on basic topics, but I made a point of understanding 99% of the course- i went over and over and over the videos, and I did use a bilingual dictionary despite the advice to the contrary. It did immerse me well however. Sometimes English based courses such as all those I mentioned above do not really leave you thinking in French by default necessarily, whereas French in Action can indeed have one thinking in French, not in English then translating in your head.

It really depends on what kind of learner you are. At the end of the day it may not matter so much what course(s) you choose or other materials, but how often you study, how diligent you are at sticking to a regular routine and how motivated you are. Finally, after doing FIA or something similar to the alternative route I've metnioned above, I'd be adding 1 or 2 advanced courses while introducing native material more and more- this is not that path I took mind you.

Edit: I definitely don't see myself as a polyglot, but perhaps that's a matter of perspective. A Dutchman likely wouldn't see me as one, but a monolingual Aussie might... all in all I speak my native language (English) plus decent French but not quite advanced I'd say, and a rather light sprinkling of a couple of two other languages, that doesn't fit my image of a polyglot, but thanks all the same.

Oh and you're welcome (sorry, you did say thank you). I am not an efficient learner really, so perhaps i'm not the best person to look to for advice, but I do have experience with courses.

[Carmody]

Peter

Many thanks for your comprehensive answer; the breadth and depth of what you reviewed is greatly appreciated. I am going to settle in and study it with a view to revising my current study plan.

For the past year I have been putting in 2-3 hrs. / day of French studies and during that time have done reading of French books which I love to do. I should do lots more reading than the 1500 pages read so far but it is hard to do that and everything at once.

Also went through Assimil New French with Ease which I thought was really good.

Also I have been doing podcasts...
http://www.podclub.ch/fr/emissions/l-avis-de-marie-f
which I find very useful for training the ear and checking that with the transcripts and building my vocabulary.

I am about 75% of the way towards the FSI suggested 800 hours.

Thanks again for your in depth over view, it is tremendously valuable and I am grateful.

[PeterMollenburg]

Peter

Many thanks for your comprehensive answer; the breadth and depth of what you reviewed is greatly appreciated. I am going to settle in and study it with a view to revising my current study plan.

For the past year I have been putting in 2-3 hrs. / day of French studies and during that time have done reading of French books which I love to do. I should do lots more reading than the 1500 pages read so far but it is hard to do that and everything at once.

Also went through Assimil New French with Ease which I thought was really good.

Also I have been doing podcasts...
http://www.podclub.ch/fr/emissions/l-avis-de-marie-f
which I find very useful for training the ear and checking that with the transcripts and building my vocabulary.

I am about 75% of the way towards the FSI suggested 800 hours.

Thanks again for your in depth over view, it is tremendously valuable and I am grateful.

You're most welcome Carmody, sounds like you're making very good progress with a good mix of resources. In your position, considering you liked Assimil NFWE, perhaps you could consider 'Assimil Using French' if you haven't already. If not interested for whatever reason, no drama. It's just as good if not better in my opinion than NFWE, and raises the bar to another level (gradually) as well. Podcasts are also another good resource and I have listened a little to l'avis de Marie which seems quite well done. Personally I don't ascribe to the FSI hours recommended to reach certain levels as I study under different circumstances and find them way off the mark, as I do a lot of going over material at the same level before progressing and a lot of pronunciation focus, both which add considerable time). Good luck and feel free to ask for any further input from my perspective.

[Carmody]

Thanks for the suggestion of 'Assimil Using French' . Will any edition do or do I need a special edition; I think I heard that it changed over the editions.

If the FSI 800 hrs. is not a useful approximation what suggestion would you make? I sense that 1600 hrs. is closer to the mark for me.

I understand that fish get bulging eyes because they are indecisive as to which way to go. Learning a single language like just French is giving me bulging eyes....

[PeterMollenburg]

Thanks for the suggestion of 'Assimil Using French' . Will any edition do or do I need a special edition; I think I heard that it changed over the editions.

If the FSI 800 hrs. is not a useful approximation what suggestion would you make? I sense that 1600 hrs. is closer to the mark for me.

I understand that fish get bulging eyes because they are indecisive as to which way to go. Learning a single language like just French is giving me bulging eyes....

I don't know much about the different versions of Using French. I can tell you that I bought mine perhaps 3 years ago and it is still the current one sold on the Assimil website, but there is a date on the inside cover that says '1985'. So, I think if you get your hands on any version of Using French 1985 or onwards you're likely to have the same course with perhaps few changes (perhaps typos?) right up to now. As to whether it's better than any earlier version I am not sure. I have not heard of an earlier advanced French course by Assimil, but that does not mean one exists. It seems to me that it's more the beginner's French course (currently: New French with Ease), which you are familiar with, which has had more changes/editions over the years.

I don't want to make any suggestion regarding FSI hours (or any other) and levels attainable with French (or any other language). I've done something in the ball park of 3000 hours and feel I'm at a B2 level, BUT I have done a LOT, I repeat, a LOT of repetition- many many many easy courses, many not as easy, but still easy courses and some intermediate material (really only Using French), so I don't think I can be a good judge of this. I wanted to progress quickly initially, but I then wanted to progress thoroughly, then I just wanted to progress through courses thoroughly. I'm one of the worst indicators for efficiency. My vocabulary size is probably past a C1 level but my grammar use is not. Still, for me to get to C2 I think it will take at least a couple more years of 1000hrs/year. Others would get there in a tenth of the time (look at Benny who really 'hacks' language exams, which I don't agree with). And many realistic learners probably take somewhere in between in terms of time. I think forget about time limits so much, but keep to goals so you keep progressing. Lately, for whatever reason I've succumbed to stopping and starting and not being consistent with my study hours. Still my comprehension of French on TV is rising, because, although i'm not studying like I should be, i'm keeping in touch with the language in some shape or form every day- some days 3 hours study, some days 0 study, but 2 hours watching, or 1.5hrs of pimsleur while driving.