French In Action, as a learning device?

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Seneca
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Re: French In Action, as a learning device?

Postby Seneca » Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:57 am

Stefan wrote:
Seneca wrote:I have always found it interesting how the Spanish and German equivalents of French in Action never seemed to be even close to as popular. Any ideas why? Worse quality audio-visual? Weaker or less thorough accompanying materials?

What's the German equivalent? The most similar thing I can think of is Deutsch Plus and that's one of the most recommended programs for anyone learning the language. I just recently found out that there's a coursebook, workbook, study guide and audio tape that's supposed to be used along the Deutsch Plus show. They seem to share a common thread in how a lot of people only watch the videos and then get their "regular" language learning from another source.

In lack of better words, I also believe there's a Assimil effect. Alexander Arguelles is a well-known person within the language learning community so when he praised Assimil, it spread and now everyone recommends it. As we established in another thread, the method isn't new - they used it 2000 years ago, but it works and became popular. I might be wrong to credit Arguelles for it though but that's the impression I got when I discovered the international language learning community.

To summarise, FIA has three things going for it.

1) It works.
2) The videos makes it somewhat unique.
3) Popularity breeds popularity.

I've studied German on and off for years and own most courses you can get but still don't know about a FIA equivalent so a major part is probably knowledge about it. If no one knows abut it or recommends it, then new learners won't use it. In line with my point above about popularity breeding popularity.

Fokus Deutsch was what I was referring to.

You may be right about popularity breeding popularity. Perhaps French is just studied more often by people on forums I visit, so FIA comes up more. Though, I also am unaware of the workbooks being updated for Destinos like they were for FIA. I suppose it is just all about perception.
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Re: French In Action, as a learning device?

Postby PeterMollenburg » Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:04 pm

Stefan wrote:What's the German equivalent?

I've studied German on and off for years and own most courses you can get but still don't know about a FIA equivalent so a major part is probably knowledge about it.


Fokus Deutsch
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fokus_Deutsch

The Series for the Fokus Deutsch videos were produced in part by WGBH Boston as were the videos for Destinos and French in Action. All three series were funded by the Annenberg/CPB Project. The similarities don't stretch much beyond that, but over the years reading about the 3 series online they have often been grouped together (like they have on Wikipedia), likely due to the comprehensive nature of the courses, who produced the video series and ultimately which organsation(s) funded them.

I have experience with the Destinos and FIA series, but none with Fokus Deutsch, apart from owning all the components- one day i'd like to learn German, but that day is a while off yet it seems.

Seneca wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote:
Seneca wrote:I have always found it interesting how the Spanish and German equivalents of French in Action never seemed to be even close to as popular. Any ideas why? Worse quality audio-visual? Weaker or less thorough accompanying materials?


If you're talking about Destinos: An Introduction to Spanish I'd say this course is equally good in quality and somewhat better in effectiveness.

Wow, really? What makes it more effective? That is pretty cool since FIA gets such great praise.


That is coming from my personal perspective. The major difference (apart from the language ;) ) in my opinion is that FIA uses the immersion technique while Destinos, well, does not. I think it makes sense to use immersion for French. I might be completely at odds in making this statement, but I think French is a language in which immersion seems to suit better. Spanish seems to translate better from English than does French. This could simply just be a result of me using immersion more with French and no immersion with Spanish that I've come to the conclusion. I don't think it's a definitive conclusion however, as when I think about it, I think it's a rather weak statement. Still, the reason I probably found Destinos more effective might not be a result of the course, but of the language. Spanish just seems easier to me, always has. I think Destinos provides graded reading, translation, gradual introduction of increasingly difficult vocab etc etc. For Spanish this series just seems to work like a charm. French is trickier. Although FIA is absolutely excellent, I just don't think I can pick up any other language as smoothly as I did when starting out with Destinos.

For the record there was a follow on series to Destinos called Nuevos Destinos https://www.learner.org/resources/series151.html for which multiple course books of varied targets exist. For example there is a series of 'Intermediate grammar review' books that match this series and have their own audio recordings, a series called 'Intensive and High Beginner' books with their own recordings, there is even 'Espanol para hispanohablantes' for those who already speak Spanish and want to improve their written communication I believe and more. And, you guessed it, I own all these components too. I certainly intend on using all the Destinos materials right through when it comes to restarting my Spanish
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Re: French In Action, as a learning device?

Postby Seneca » Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:16 pm

Nice. I am unsure when Destinos might fit into my study plan, if ever, but here is a link to all the audio for the course:

http://wlcmedia.csumb.edu/Spanish/Destinos/audio/

From reading online, it seems that link is for the 1st edition of the textbook where the audio has the textbook audio first and then the workbook audio. Since the textbook can be had for a penny plus shipping, I just ordered it. Considering I am getting the 1st edition of that and want to use that free audio, is all I need the free videos here, and then these two workbooks?

#1
Image

#2
Image

If so, a shame the workbooks aren't the usual price of a penny + shipping for these old courses, but still reasonable overall if it means a graded watching experience.
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Re: French In Action, as a learning device?

Postby Stefan » Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:19 pm

Seneca wrote:Fokus Deutsch was what I was referring to.

Ah, I completely forgot about that one. I'm speculating but could it be due to killing competition? You've got Extr@ (A1-A2), Deutsch Plus (A1-B1), Türkisch für Anfänger (A2-B1) and Jojo sucht das Glück (B1-B2) so there's simply no room left for another A1-B1 show with low video quality that isn't regularly recommended?

On a related note, I just discovered two other shows. One named Deutsch Aktuell (97 min) with terrible video quality/acting on YouTube and another named Treffpunkt Berlin (24 + 5 episodes) that is supposed to be watched with the Deutsch Aktuell books. The videos are completely different but I have no idea if they are related to the same course (maybe update) or if they just share the same name. Oh, and then you also got Muzzy which we watched in English at school when I was a kid.

This might be a bit off-topic though.
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Re: French In Action, as a learning device?

Postby AlexTG » Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:51 pm

No one recommends Fokus Deutsch because it's a snoozefest. It's not at all fun like Destinos (and presumably FIA, which I never used)

Deutsch Plus was interesting, but I hated that the main character was an immigrant struggling with the language barrier. I didn't find that motivating at all. Show me natives, or at least non-natives having fun with the language (like in Extra).
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Re: French In Action, as a learning device?

Postby aokoye » Fri Aug 26, 2016 4:56 pm

Stefan wrote:What's the German equivalent? The most similar thing I can think of is Deutsch Plus and that's one of the most recommended programs for anyone learning the language. I just recently found out that there's a coursebook, workbook, study guide and audio tape that's supposed to be used along the Deutsch Plus show. They seem to share a common thread in how a lot of people only watch the videos and then get their "regular" language learning from another source.

It was called Fokus Deutsch. It looks like it was a 1 year as opposed to two year course. The videos also aren't easily available though I'm sure you could find them somewhere. I haven't used it but I remember seeing it mentioned in the old forum and coming across it myself on learner.org.

Edit: And apparently at least two other people already answered that question before I got to it :oops:
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Re: French In Action, as a learning device?

Postby aokoye » Fri Aug 26, 2016 5:16 pm

Stefan wrote:Ah, I completely forgot about that one. I'm speculating but could it be due to killing competition? You've got Extr@ (A1-A2), Deutsch Plus (A1-B1), Türkisch für Anfänger (A2-B1) and Jojo sucht das Glück (B1-B2) so there's simply no room left for another A1-B1 show with low video quality that isn't regularly recommended?


Türkisch für Anfänger isn't actually aimed at language learners though is it? Unless I'm just thinking of a different show with the same name (the one with the blended family and the really unfortunate part of the. storyline that involves the daughter falling in love with the mom's therapy client...)
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Re: French In Action, as a learning device?

Postby Stefan » Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:59 pm

aokoye wrote:Türkisch für Anfänger isn't actually aimed at language learners though is it? Unless I'm just thinking of a different show with the same name (the one with the blended family and the really unfortunate part of the. storyline that involves the daughter falling in love with the mom's therapy client...)

Not intentionally but Swedish public service rated is as A2-B1 and published worksheets/study guide for it so now it's being used in Swedish schools (grades 7-9) to teach German. It's also a common recommendation online for anyone wanting to learn the language.

It isn't at all comparable with FIA but I wanted to point at the fact that there's a steady stream of easy-to-understand TV series with increasing difficulty for anyone who wants to learn the language.
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Re: French In Action, as a learning device?

Postby Carmody » Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:45 pm

Well, having gone through just the videos of the course, I have now embarked on FIA with all the course components (textbook, workbook, study guide, audio, video). It is an interesting experience.

It clearly requires a lot of patience and perseverance.
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Re: French In Action, as a learning device?

Postby PeterMollenburg » Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:10 pm

Carmody wrote:It clearly requires a lot of patience and perseverance.


Indeed it does. I have recently returned to FIA after many attempts. My first attempt being the most successful in which I made it half way through the course many many moons (ok 'years') ago. I used to return to the first lesson and start again. Fortunately last time I attempted it wasn't so long ago, nor was the time before that, so i'm just picking up where I left off (currently on Leçon 17) as I know most of the earlier lessons up to this point like the back of my hand. Here's to moving beyond Leçon 26 (once I reach it.. umm... again)!

FIA is an awesome resource, but one of it's major strong points, it's comprehensiveness, I believe is also the reason many don't make it all the way through- It's just so incredibly comprehensive when all the components are used that you just lose interest in the long-haul 'adventure' at some point. This is where Assimil really does well- short lessons, which eventually, after having completed an entire Assimil course, have taught you a decent 'amount' of the language for want of a better word. I enjoy both courses, but FIA is a mission and half, that's for sure. For all us crazy people embarking on FIA for the first time or yet again, good luck peoples, may you endeavour to reach the end ;)
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