How much trouble does the novel Siebenkäs give native German speakers?

[Khayyam]

I thought I'd built my receptive German to the point that I could go head-to-head with most natives, but my current endeavor may be proving me wrong. I'm trying to read Siebenkäs by Jean Paul, and it's breaking my back, man. But I have to consider that it's quite old, and that it doesn't seem to have been written with clarity and directness in mind. This author's particular kind of cleverness demands that he beat around the bush quite a lot (I get glimmers of this whenever I do understand things). So am I really in the same boat as most natives who approach it?

[Doitsujin]

So am I really in the same boat as most natives who approach it?

I had a look at the first chapter and also had a hard time following the story.
I don't think that reading Jean Paul novels will improve your German.
You should try some pulp fiction translations instead.
Edgar Wallace's books are in the Public Domain and so are most contemporary German translations.
Here's a link to a free German epub omnibus edition with about 50 detective novels.

[Khayyam]

I appreciate your checking it out and confirming my suspicion that this book would give even a native German speaker trouble.

Thanks for the suggestion regarding alternatives, but (not to be cocky about it) my receptive German's already so advanced that there's no way reading pulp fiction would do anything to improve it. It'd be almost as easy for me as reading it in English. The main reason I'm going for books like Siebenkaes these days is that easier works don't challenge me.

Of course shifty eyes, shuffle-shuffle what I really should do if I want a challenge is focus on building up my weaksauce active German, but let's not talk about that.

[DaveAgain]

I appreciate your checking it out and confirming my suspicion that this book would give even a native German speaker trouble.

Thanks for the suggestion regarding alternatives, but (not to be cocky about it) my receptive German's already so advanced that there's no way reading pulp fiction would do anything to improve it. It'd be almost as easy for me as reading it in English. The main reason I'm going for books like Siebenkaes these days is that easier works don't challenge me.

Of course shifty eyes, shuffle-shuffle what I really should do if I want a challenge is focus on building up my weaksauce active German, but let's not talk about that.

ARD have a different Jean Paul story adapted for radio, perhaps that one would be a half-way house?

Himmelfahrt und Höllensturz des Luftschiffers Giannozzo (part one | two | text).

[Le Baron]

Thanks for the suggestion regarding alternatives, but (not to be cocky about it) my receptive German's already so advanced that there's no way reading pulp fiction would do anything to improve it. It'd be almost as easy for me as reading it in English. The main reason I'm going for books like Siebenkaes these days is that easier works don't challenge me.

I discovered quite some time ago that there will be books in any language that will probably escape me. I actually think this is what causes problems when people are reading at any level. The idea that one can engage with any books just because they are the ones people recommend or are seen as a challenge.

Some guy here was complaining to me about James Joyce's Ulysses and how he found it difficult. Yet there's enough in that book to keep a high-functioning native speaker busy for years. Many native speakers at a high level won't engage with it. The guy's English is highly-developed, but he thinks this is the ultimate test, but for what I don't know.

There's an episode of Hancock's Half Hour (old UK comedy series 1950s-60s) where he tries to read Bertrand Russell, but has to keep looking up words in the dictionary. He reproves himself because it's in English and he ought to understand it. He manages three sentences of the introduction.

[Khayyam]

Thanks for the suggestion regarding alternatives, but (not to be cocky about it) my receptive German's already so advanced that there's no way reading pulp fiction would do anything to improve it. It'd be almost as easy for me as reading it in English. The main reason I'm going for books like Siebenkaes these days is that easier works don't challenge me.

I discovered quite some time ago that there will be books in any language that will probably escape me. I actually think this is what causes problems when people are reading at any level. The idea that one can engage with any books just because they are the ones people recommend or are seen as a challenge.

Some guy here was complaining to me about James Joyce's Ulysses and how he found it difficult. Yet there's enough in that book to keep a high-functioning native speaker busy for years. Many native speakers at a high level won't engage with it. The guy's English is highly-developed, but he thinks this is the ultimate test, but for what I don't know.

There's an episode of Hancock's Half Hour (old UK comedy series 1950s-60s) where he tries to read Bertrand Russell, but has to keep looking up words in the dictionary. He reproves himself because it's in English and he ought to understand it. He manages three sentences of the introduction.

Well, I hope I can eventually understand Siebenkaes, because some of what I've understood has been really amusing. There's a scene where the main character is trying to bore the father of his love interest to sleep with his conversation so that he can get some time alone with the girl, and he has to be really careful not to startle the old man awake by unintentionally saying something interesting. There comes a point where he can say whatever he wants as long as it's in the same droning tone, but if he stops talking entirely, the dad will wake up--so he starts conveying his sweet nothings to the girl in (what I imagine as) the Garfield voice. Stuff like that has made me feel very teased by the opacity of 90% of the book.

I have to admit that I've reached a point with German where it's almost like a personal affront if I don't understand something. I've done the work and MASTERED it, dang it, it's now entirely my personal property, and this is not allowed!

[Le Baron]

I have to admit that I've reached a point with German where it's almost like a personal affront if I don't understand something. I've done the work and MASTERED it, dang it, it's now entirely my personal property, and this is not allowed!

Ah yes, this is understandable. Or not understandable as the case may be.

[Lawyer&Mom]

I read the first page. How can I understand so many words and have no freaking clue what is going on? It made me dizzy.

[Khayyam]

I read the first page. How can I understand so many words and have no freaking clue what is going on? It made me dizzy.

You too, huh? At least now I know I haven't completely lost my grip.

[coldrainwater]

The main reason I'm going for books like Siebenkaes these days is that easier works don't challenge me.

I share the same tendency, often without special regard to my current reading skill level. Feel free to suggest other similar works as you come across them. Several features of Jean-Paul's writing stand out as appealing from a language-learning perspective.

The red thread in Siebenkäs is quite challenging to follow and getting lost in the first chapter was a certain bet for me. I suspect it isn't the best place for me to start or the best sample to examine first. If you are inclined, you might find the following sample Rede des toten Christus from the same work far more digestible. Part of my reason for selecting the passages is that several forum members are interested in renditions of dreams. I came across it via the Jean_Paul French Wikipedia main article, which led me to the Un Songe (Le discours du Christ mort), the translation that lent the work substantial popularity in France, influencing several notable authors including Hugo. Perhaps Jean-Paul is more lucid when writing from a dream state than he is mingling romance with satire and comedy. reves.ca seems intriguing to me in its own right, if only for the focus and long list of authors included, which I am sure have analogues in German. On a brief skim of the Wikipedia page, my eye caught paraphrasing, circumlocution, digressions and labyrinthic bifurcations as characteristic of his style.