Tea With Tarvos - Tarvos' Log 2019

Continue or start your personal language log here, including logs for challenge participants
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tarvos
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2889
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:13 am
Location: The Lowlands
Languages: Native: NL, EN
Professional: ES, RU
Speak well: DE, FR, RO, EO, SV
Speak reasonably: IT, ZH, PT, NO, EL, CZ
Need improvement: PO, IS, HE, JP, KO, HU, FI
Passive: AF, DK, LAT
Dabbled in: BRT, ZH (SH), BG, EUS, ZH (CAN), and a whole lot more.
Language Log: http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/fo ... PN=1&TPN=1
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Re: Tarvos' новый лог

Postby tarvos » Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:41 pm

IT: Stiamo qui ancora una volta, e si sono passati qualche giorni, nei quali mi sono fatta un sacco di cose che hanno una relazione con l'apprendimento delle lingue straniere. Ma non vi deludere - non mi sono seduta alla mia tavola per imparare per cuore tutte le declinazione dei verbi italiani (effettivamente, non c'è bisogno). Al contrario, ho cominciato a leggere l'Amica geniale di Elena Ferrante (di cui non sapevo niente prima di comprare questo libro elettronico). Ma nei questi ultimi giorni ho già divorato più di 200 pagine in italiano, abbastanza molto per capirlo meglio di prima, e anche per fare aumentarsi il mio livello. Più che faccio questo studio estensivo della lingua, più che mi sento capace di farmi capire meglio. E anche in italiano, una lingua che non ho parlato molto nella mia vita, si capiscono bene le cose fondamentale.

Oltre l'italiano, mi sono messa a leggere anche il francese, ma qui si tratta d'un libro autobiografico, allora i vocaboli usati non mi sembrano molto difficile. E anche là si rimarca che le lingue romane mi vengono bene in generale, ovviamente perché questo uno dei gruppi linguistici che ho usato di più.

Insomma mi viene nella testa l'idea che studiare le lingue diverse che ho imparato prima dell'incontro dei poliglotti alla Slovacchia è stato molta buona. Della maggiorità mi ricordo di tutto e il livello e nettamente accettabile. Posso solo sperare che il livello del mio cinese o ebraico sarebbe tanto avanzato, poi ci vediamo che abbia da fare. Alla fine: non mollare, accettare quello che ho in mane. La soddisfazione deve essere grande.
1 x
I hope your world is kind.

Is a girl.

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tarvos
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2889
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:13 am
Location: The Lowlands
Languages: Native: NL, EN
Professional: ES, RU
Speak well: DE, FR, RO, EO, SV
Speak reasonably: IT, ZH, PT, NO, EL, CZ
Need improvement: PO, IS, HE, JP, KO, HU, FI
Passive: AF, DK, LAT
Dabbled in: BRT, ZH (SH), BG, EUS, ZH (CAN), and a whole lot more.
Language Log: http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/fo ... PN=1&TPN=1
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Contact:

Re: Tarvos' новый лог

Postby tarvos » Sat May 06, 2017 6:41 pm

Chugging forward. I've been watching a Chinese TV series but they unfortunately only have good English subs, not Mandarin ones, which would be loads better. And I've hit the point where the amount of English subs has tapered off to zero, so now I'm stuck with wanting to watch a series but having to do so without subtitles at all... in Mandarin. Grrr.
0 x
I hope your world is kind.

Is a girl.

User avatar
tarvos
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2889
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:13 am
Location: The Lowlands
Languages: Native: NL, EN
Professional: ES, RU
Speak well: DE, FR, RO, EO, SV
Speak reasonably: IT, ZH, PT, NO, EL, CZ
Need improvement: PO, IS, HE, JP, KO, HU, FI
Passive: AF, DK, LAT
Dabbled in: BRT, ZH (SH), BG, EUS, ZH (CAN), and a whole lot more.
Language Log: http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/fo ... PN=1&TPN=1
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Contact:

Re: Tarvos' новый лог

Postby tarvos » Mon May 08, 2017 8:43 pm

Right now I am studying a little less because I'm mostly in maintenance mode. I'm improving my Mandarin somewhat, but that's really the only language I feel like working on somewhat more intensively.

The reason for this is partly that it's the only language which I am currently dissatisfied with, but partly also the one for which I have a plan that doesn't involve me basically learning the language from scratch. I mean, I really don't want to speak Hungarian the way I do right now, but I need to build up a plan to improve it and it would cost me oodles of time without much reward to show for it, because I don't think I'm going to need Hungarian soon.

And partly it's because I have to prepare my presentation for the Polyglot Gathering, and I'm writing up my pronoun guide in English beforehand. This is a long article to write and it's going to cost me a few days. I've covered a few of the languages, but I still have to cover some of the major examples, such as English, Spanish, Swedish, Esperanto, Dutch and Czech. (I am taking these as examples along with Hungarian and Mandarin, but there's not much to say about Hungarian). The reason I picked these has to do with how they organized their pronouns, and how they propose solutions.

(And also because most Asian languages don't distinguish for gender. So I can't pick them.)
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I hope your world is kind.

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Tristano
Blue Belt
Posts: 640
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:11 am
Location: The Netherlands
Languages: Native: Italian
Speaks: English, Dutch, French, Spanish
Understands but not yet speaks: Romanian
Studies: German
Can't wait to put his hands on: Scandinavian languages, Slavic languages, Turkish, Arabic and other stuff
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5141
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Re: Tarvos' новый лог

Postby Tristano » Tue May 09, 2017 9:01 am

tarvos wrote:...non mi sono seduta alla mia tavola per imparare per cuore...


Ciao Tarvos, in Italiano si impara "a memoria" ;)

(ah e sono non sono troppo indiscreto - het spijt me, ik ben nieuwsgierig :oops: ) cosa significa il tuo nickname? So che 'vos' in Olandese significa volpe. E' magari 'tarvos' un qualche tipo di volpe? :geek:
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Cavesa
Black Belt - 4th Dan
Posts: 4960
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:46 am
Languages: Czech (N), French (C2) English (C1), Italian (C1), Spanish, German (C1)
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Re: Tarvos' новый лог

Postby Cavesa » Tue May 09, 2017 9:06 am

This is the first time I've read "major example" and "Czech" together in one sentence :-D Thanks.
I am sure your presentation will be awesome.
1 x

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tarvos
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2889
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:13 am
Location: The Lowlands
Languages: Native: NL, EN
Professional: ES, RU
Speak well: DE, FR, RO, EO, SV
Speak reasonably: IT, ZH, PT, NO, EL, CZ
Need improvement: PO, IS, HE, JP, KO, HU, FI
Passive: AF, DK, LAT
Dabbled in: BRT, ZH (SH), BG, EUS, ZH (CAN), and a whole lot more.
Language Log: http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/fo ... PN=1&TPN=1
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Contact:

Re: Tarvos' новый лог

Postby tarvos » Tue May 09, 2017 1:56 pm

Tristano wrote:
tarvos wrote:...non mi sono seduta alla mia tavola per imparare per cuore...


Ciao Tarvos, in Italiano si impara "a memoria" ;)

(ah e sono non sono troppo indiscreto - het spijt me, ik ben nieuwsgierig :oops: ) cosa significa il tuo nickname? So che 'vos' in Olandese significa volpe. E' magari 'tarvos' un qualche tipo di volpe? :geek:


No, non c'entra l'olandese. Invece, si tratta d'una deità gallica, in particolare una che si chiama Tarvos. Questo Tarvos è un toro. Non si sa molto di questa deità, ma è certo che si associa con tre gru (il nome anche si trova come Tarvos Trigaranus). Logicamente ch'è un toro, perchè la parole latina per quest'animale è taurus. Nelle lingue galliche, questo si è trasformato in Tarvos.

E lingua gallica vuol dire la lingua gallica antica, allora la lingua CELTA di quest'epoca. Il francese non c'entra nulla qui.

This is the first time I've read "major example" and "Czech" together in one sentence :-D Thanks.
I am sure your presentation will be awesome.


For the presentation it isn't very important whether I pick Russian or Czech or even something else, ultimately the result is the same. But I decided to pick Czech because the presentation will be in Slovakia and I don't speak Slovak, so the closest we can get is Czech. Ultimately pretty much all the Slavic languages have the same problems with gender neutrality, so what I say about Czech is probably by extension 99% valid for Russian, Polish and so on. Actually, it's the same reason I am skipping French, Italian and Portuguese - it's the same issue as in Spanish. I have limited time, so I can't cover all of them, and none of the Romance languages have come up with good solutions anyway.

Perhaps in my online guide there will at some point be a more extensive discussion of individual languages, but the time for that discussion is not now. Mostly because I have enough to type up.
Last edited by tarvos on Tue May 09, 2017 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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I hope your world is kind.

Is a girl.

User avatar
Tristano
Blue Belt
Posts: 640
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:11 am
Location: The Netherlands
Languages: Native: Italian
Speaks: English, Dutch, French, Spanish
Understands but not yet speaks: Romanian
Studies: German
Can't wait to put his hands on: Scandinavian languages, Slavic languages, Turkish, Arabic and other stuff
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5141
x 1015

Re: Tarvos' новый лог

Postby Tristano » Tue May 09, 2017 2:02 pm

Chiaro! Curiosità soddisfatta :) Grazie mille :D
0 x

User avatar
tarvos
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2889
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:13 am
Location: The Lowlands
Languages: Native: NL, EN
Professional: ES, RU
Speak well: DE, FR, RO, EO, SV
Speak reasonably: IT, ZH, PT, NO, EL, CZ
Need improvement: PO, IS, HE, JP, KO, HU, FI
Passive: AF, DK, LAT
Dabbled in: BRT, ZH (SH), BG, EUS, ZH (CAN), and a whole lot more.
Language Log: http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/fo ... PN=1&TPN=1
x 6093
Contact:

Re: Tarvos' новый лог

Postby tarvos » Fri May 12, 2017 3:32 pm

Instead of doing much study, I have been preparing my talk for the Polyglot Gathering. In anticipation of the upcoming event, I have written a companion guide on my blog which has been published today, in English. You can read it here.

Please keep in mind that this talk will be inclusive towards LGBTQIA+ people. Yes, there will be things the less politically correct among us will not enjoy hearing. Keep in mind that this talk is open to everybody, but I do ask basic respect towards trans people from all attendees - and I am mentioning this beforehand so you cannot say you have not been warned. I do not want the talk to be dominated by silly questions about me being trans but I want to discuss the change in language use and the development of gender-neutral pronouns - let's stick to that topic when we're at the Gathering, all right?

Now, all that's left for you people to do is SHARE THE GOOD NEWS and encourage as many of your fellow attendees to attend my talk. We're gonna make it a great occasion for everybody and we'll celebrate language, gendered or no.
5 x
I hope your world is kind.

Is a girl.

User avatar
tarvos
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2889
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:13 am
Location: The Lowlands
Languages: Native: NL, EN
Professional: ES, RU
Speak well: DE, FR, RO, EO, SV
Speak reasonably: IT, ZH, PT, NO, EL, CZ
Need improvement: PO, IS, HE, JP, KO, HU, FI
Passive: AF, DK, LAT
Dabbled in: BRT, ZH (SH), BG, EUS, ZH (CAN), and a whole lot more.
Language Log: http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/fo ... PN=1&TPN=1
x 6093
Contact:

Re: Tarvos' новый лог

Postby tarvos » Mon May 15, 2017 11:07 am

I've finished my Chinese TV drama 麻辣变形计 (Hot Girl), which is a very misleading title because it's an action drama about bodyguards (of which most are women, in good non-sexist Chinese fashion... the funniest bit is where one of the bodyguards' father asks his daughter why the hell she became a bodyguard, then hires them for a mission, they succeed, and he's like "um, okay, sure, you are awesome, not gonna complain about you anymore."

I am going to continue reading Jim Holt's Waarom bestaat de wereld (in Dutch), because I got it as a present and I still haven't finished it. Sorry mum.

And apart from that I need to finish my presentation. And revise my Mandarin.

-------

Second robber to the right of Christ
Cut in half, infanticide
The world will rejoice today as the crowds feast on the rotting poet
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I hope your world is kind.

Is a girl.

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zenmonkey
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2528
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Location: California, Germany and France
Languages: Spanish, English, French trilingual - German (B2/C1) on/off study: Persian, Hebrew, Tibetan, Setswana.
Some knowledge of Italian, Portuguese, Ladino, Yiddish ...
Want to tackle Tzotzil, Nahuatl
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=859
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Re: Tarvos' новый лог

Postby zenmonkey » Mon May 15, 2017 5:38 pm

tarvos wrote:Instead of doing much study, I have been preparing my talk for the Polyglot Gathering. In anticipation of the upcoming event, I have written a companion guide on my blog which has been published today, in English. You can read it here.

Please keep in mind that this talk will be inclusive towards LGBTQIA+ people. Yes, there will be things the less politically correct among us will not enjoy hearing. Keep in mind that this talk is open to everybody, but I do ask basic respect towards trans people from all attendees - and I am mentioning this beforehand so you cannot say you have not been warned. I do not want the talk to be dominated by silly questions about me being trans but I want to discuss the change in language use and the development of gender-neutral pronouns - let's stick to that topic when we're at the Gathering, all right?

Now, all that's left for you people to do is SHARE THE GOOD NEWS and encourage as many of your fellow attendees to attend my talk. We're gonna make it a great occasion for everybody and we'll celebrate language, gendered or no.


Nice blog! Very well written.

I was thinking about a question or two I might want to ask and then it occurred to me I could post it to you before the event.
Have you considered that for those languages that have strongly gendered grammatical that the neutral isn't reserved for objects? For example, using grammatical neutral in German does not remove the gender identity of an unmarried woman - das Madchen, das Fraulein, das Madel (primarly used by adult women to designate other adult women) are all neutral and all female.

Or perhaps that gender typed romance languages may allow for more play within the language? A language like Spanish, as difficult as it may seem in grammatical gender typing, also allows for wordplay that just cannot occur in English. One can say "el papacito" or "la papacita" which is a type of fluid construct that one can play with. While "los chicas" might be grammatically incorrect, I've heard it as a repossessed structure (in one case in a friendly and informal way for a cross-dressing group). Some gender neutral structures are reserved for objects "eso" o "esto" are improper for people but so is "esta" or "este" (and my mother would have raised an eyebrow if I ever addressed someone with "this one" or "that one"). Spanish also has a lot of epicene structures which are gendered independent of the sex of the subject - the frog (la rana), the judge (el juez), etc... Or words that are ambiguous in grammatical gender like sea (el/la mar) and depend on use. And obviously the language has grammatically gendered generic neutrals plurals which may include people of both sexes - like "las enfermeras".

Anyway, good luck with your talk.
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