The iguana's tale- Portuguese, Spanish, Haitian Creole and Ladino

[iguanamon]

Reading Ladino (Djudeo-espanyol) in Rashi
My speed has picked up dramatically. I'm stumbling on less than one word per sentence now and can find my place easily when I get distracted or have to look up a word. My copy of El Princhipiko has started losing pages. You'd think that if you paid $25 for a book that it would hold up. So I've bought some glue and will repair it. In the meantime I've been reading lots of Rashi from other sources such as the Meam Loez

Me'am Lo'ez (en ivrit מעם לועז), empesijado por el haham Ya'akov Huli enel anyo 1730, es un livro de komentarios ensima del Tanah eskrito en la lingua djudeo-espanyola i se kreye es el livro amijor konosido en esta lingua.

En los dias del sinyor haham Huli, muncha djente en la Turkiya no tenían muncha konosensya del ivrit kon el buto de meldar i estudiar la Tora i sus komentarios en la lingua orijinala. Antonses el haham Huli dechidió el empesijo del lavoro de kriar un livro enel kual los mas emportantes temas de la Tora puediesen ser meldados en esta lingua. El livro fue partajado de akodro kon la parashat ashavua, i kada detalyo es eksplikado de akódro kon el Midrash i el Talmud. En la su entroduksiyon, el haham Kuli dize ke "kualunke ke meldase el Me'am Lo'ez kada diya va pueder dezir en los Shamayim ke ambezó toda la Tora, ya ke todos los sus aspektos estan enel"..

I'd love to find more novels in Rashi script, but they are hard to come by. I am hoping to learn more when I take an online course from the Yiddish Book Center called The Rise and Fall of Ladino-Speaking Jews. The professor, Devin Naar, runs the Ladino program at the University of Washington. I had to sign up.

Join Professor Devin E. Naar of the University of Washington for an in-depth exploration of Ladino language, literature, and culture.
THE DETAILS:

Class runs for four weeks, March 21 - April 15. Interactive online discussion with the professor will be available during these four weeks only. Lectures and readings will remain available for viewing and downloading for four additional weeks (through May 13).

Course includes:

Four downloadable lectures by Devin Naar
One downloadable lecture by Sephardic music researcher and collector Joel Bresler
Introduction by Aaron Lansky
Readings and resources
Online discussion forum

One new lecture is posted each week. You watch and respond at your own convenience.

I also explored the Yiddish Book Center site. There's a ton of resources here for anyone interested in learning Yiddish at their shop and the Steven Spielberg Digital Library.

At the bookstore I found Yiddish translations of Dr. Seuss' The Cat in the Hat - Di Katz der Payatz and Eyn Fish, Tsvey Fish, Royter Fish, Bloyer Fish (One Fish, Two Fish, Red Fish, Blue Fish) along with Curious George and Der Hobit




Possible wanderlust language? I can almost, pretty much, read the alphabet already! For a non-Jewish guy, I certainly seem to be attracted to Jewish languages.

Spanish Entering the final week of my telenovela Celia. It's been a good novela that has been stronger at the first two thirds then the last third. I'm looking forward to the grand finale which looks to be good. Afterwards, I don't know what I will watch for that 9 pm time slot. I'm sure I'll find something.

Portuguese I'm up to episode 26 of the first season of Sai de Baixo. I'm almost finished with my novel Encontrada by Carina Rissi. This is a sequel to her novel Perdida which is the story of a young woman who is unsatisfied with her life in modern Rio. She gets robbed and has to buy a new cellphone. The shop she went to, there was a strange lady working there who sold her her new phone. One day she's out at a park and trips over a stone and is transported back in time to the early 1800's in Rio. She gets cryptic texts over her phone She has trouble adapting to a time when women weren't treated as equals. The book is a good read, well written and has lots of colloquial dialog. Carina is a good author.

Haitian Creole Reading Zanmi Pèsonn and watching the news for about 15 minutes a day. Emailing with my friend who left island.

Lesser Antilles French Creole I found out this week that someone I've known for three years is a native-speaker of LAFC (Kwéyòl) from Dominica. I didn't know he was from there and when I found out about it, I spoke to him in it. Needless to say, he was shocked! This will come in handy for language practice. He owns a bar .

[Serpent]

Aww yay for Yiddish! I tried to use it in 2007 to get more motivated for German, but needless to say this didn't work. That was when the first 6WC happened, and you needed to sign up with a completely new language
I know the Spielberg site, yes
I got the books by Bella Chagall in German. I'm hoping to read them and then go through the originals.

How did you learn the Hebrew alphabet? I've been thinking of getting some materials/workbooks for Hebrew learners.

[iguanamon]

...How did you learn the Hebrew alphabet? I've been thinking of getting some materials/workbooks for Hebrew learners.

Thanks for dropping by, Serpent. First, thank you for teaching me the Cyrillic through your tweets, . FC Locomotiv! I learned a lot from those tweets and others in Russian. I can even recognize a few cognates in Russian now. That's the benefit of twitter and the forum!

Starting at the middle of page 9 through page 10 of this log, I explain the process of my learning to read books in Rashi script. Hebrew script is similar but different. Djudeo -espanyol has four alphabets- Rashi (printed), Solitreo (cursive based on Rashi), Meruba (printed Hebrew "square" letters) and Latin script. In Hebrew and Yiddish, there are different letters to represent different sounds that don't exist in Djudeo-espanyol but do exist in Yiddish and Hebrew. Of course, I always say that where people fail with listening and extensive reading is that, they don't do it enough. So I followed my own advice.

In a nutshell, long ago, I downloaded a table of the Rashi script:

I studied it. Since I don't use srs, I went over it a few times and going through words printed in Rashi, I learned it. Also, I used LadinoType to help. There I could type whole sentences and see the words. I'm sure something similar exists for Yiddish and Hebrew.

Next, I started to read. I used a parallel text (Estoria enteresante de la ermoza Rahel with Rashi on the right and Latin text on the left:

Then I just read. I've been reading for a couple of hours everyday in Rashi script. I can read it now with very few problems, not as quickly as I can with Latin script (which I've been reading most of my life) but not bad. I probably read 25% slower in Rashi than I do with Latin script. The parallel text served as my bridge to reading solely in Rashi. I could just glance over whenever I stumbled and see where I was getting it wrong. I would have preferred to have had a pdf copy of the book, but scanning it would have been a nightmare. So,I did it the old fashioned way. Now, I read solely in Rashi. For any beginners reading this, have a look at my post on Using Global Vocies,org to make simple parallel texts in 35 languages for free. This can be a fun way to train reading and build vocabulary by having both L2 and L1 in parallel.

The book cost me $30 US from abebooks.com. I have spent a lot more money on Ladino and Haitian Creole than I have on Portuguese and Spanish. Still there are free sources available, just not as convenient as having that book with the parallel text was. If I wanted to read in Yiddish, I would follow a similar method, although first, I would have to learn the language. I'd probably start with the aforementioned Di Katz der Payatz and Eyn Fish, Tsvey Fish . I only have a few letters to learn. Reading backwards, from right to left, takes a bit of getting used to, but it seems natural now after having read about five hundred pages. I still have trouble with Hebrew words when I come across them because of the lack of vowels and certain letters that represent sounds unique to Hebrew. Hebrew words like "Galilee", "Rahel" and "Israel" are written like "GLL". "RHL" and "ISHRL". The letter "H" is probelmatic in Djudeo-espanyol because you just don't see it often enough- mainly in words like "hazino" and "hazinura"- "ill" and "illness", which come from Arabic.

As a linguist, you will see the similarities with your own alphabet of some of the letters. There certainly are much, much more materials available to explore in Yiddish than Djudeo-espanyol. Reading in a strange alphabet from right to left in another language is fun. I really do enjoy it.

[Bakunin]

I don't comment often, but I always make sure to catch up on your log. It is one of the most interesting logs here on LLORG, and I really enjoy learning about these languages I've known nothing about previously. I'm particularly impressed that you can read Rashi at a discount of only 25%. I've been reading Thai for several years now on pretty much a daily basis, and lots of it, and I'm still going markedly slower than reading Latin based languages. I would love to follow your progress in Yiddish should you decide to embark on that; the few times I've heard it I really liked the sound of it. It's not too far from German, and there's certainly a lot of fascinating culture to explore.

[iguanamon]

Thank you, Bakunin. I think your log is fantastic. At least in Rashi script there are word breaks. So, it's just a matter of learning the alphabet. Still, they don't make it easy on you with several letters being identical or practically identical, you have to figure it out from context. Yiddish... I don't know, it would certainly be fun, however; I have two friends with whom I could speak German. One is German and the other is Austrian. Arabic, especially Palestinian Arabic, would be useful to me here with the opportunity to speak it with people locally. That would be the practical and logical choice. Since when have I ever been practical, logical or "efficient"? . Learning another Jewish language as a non-Jew, I don't know. It would be a lot of fun and interesting and it would give me some distinction in having both Ladino and Yiddish in my languages. It would be impractical and illogical for sure- Oy Veh... !

[iguanamon]

Ladino (Djudeo-espanyol)
This week, I'm still reading a lot in Rashi script and it keeps getting faster to read. I'm really having fun with it. As a result, I'm not progressing with my Haitian Creole reading and have put my book aside, for now. I'll get back to it soon. It's just that when I'm "on a roll" with something I like to keep it going to get the full effect. I'll probably cut back on my Rashi reading in a week or two to about 15 minutes a day. Making slow progress with Las Aventuras de Alisia en el Paiz de las Maraviyas- Alice's Adventures in Wonderland. The translation is excellent. I just wish there were a version in Rashi script available. I'll have to get through this soon because I just ordered the Yiddish version (also Romanized). (Yes that's right, a little wanderlust for the iguana.) I listen to the news in Ladino from Kol Israel most nights before I go to sleep. I wish I could download it but alas, that's not happening. Now, most of my news about Israel comes to me via Ladino.

I almost forgot, my copy of La famiya mozotros arrived a couple of days ago in the mail- all the way from Turkey. It's a book of comic strips from the newspaper Salom in Istanbul. The language is very colloquial and it should be something I can pick up anytime and keep in regular contact with Djudeo-espanyol. I've been wanting to order it for a while but I couldn't justify the exorbitant price. I finally found a copy for sale on Amazon for $20 and bought it. Lots to explore here!

Portuguese
I'm up to episode 28 of Sai de Baixo and it just keeps getting nuttier, if that's possible. This is one absurd show. The action never leaves their condominium, more specifically- the liivng room of their condominium. In episode 27 of the first season, they decide to build a swimming pool/country club in the living room to hilarious effect. I mistakenly said earlier that the show is 42 minutes long. It's actually 50 minutes long and that does make it a bear to get through sometimes. There are 10 more episodes left to go in Series 1. I'd love to be able to take a day and "binge watch" them. That's where living in the Caribbean is a bit of a disadvantage- snow days are good for that kind of thing.

To mix it up a bit, I discovered a "new to me" show on RTP1 Portugal- Nelo & Idália. This show takes absurdity to a new level and throws it over the edge. Apparently it's been running off and on for years in Portugal. So long that "bordões", or catchphrases, from the show have entered into the colloquial language. I am watching the episodes on RTP Play. One thing the two shows have in common is butchering the English language for comedy. Miguel Falabela,of Sai de Baixo comes out with a mangled and silly English phrase every now and then for comedic effect, and so do the actors on Nelo & Idália. I wish I could find a clip from the episode on youtube that I watched last night, episode 3, where Aidinha (the adult daughter) sings "Winada Word, Winada Childa"- "We Are The World, We Are The Children" in massively mangled English. I can't embed it here but here's a short clip of it from RTP. Of course there were "magic" mushrooms involved which Nelo accidentally cooked into a "Risocco di Fundi" (Risotto di Fungi) for the family. He even mangles Italian, along with Portuguese,Spanish and English too so far. Here's a clip from the show.


I finished my book in Portuguese Encontrada by Carina Rissi. I see where the first book in the series Perdida is going to be made into a film in Brazil and the author is one of the scriptwriters and involved in the production. I'll look forward to watching that. Carina Rissi's inspiration for writing is Jane Austen and I definitely see the connection. It's almost as if she's a 21st century, Brazilian Jane Austen. She's quite talented. Despite the covers, and the classification as "chick lit", these books have an appeal to everyone. Her heroine, Sofia Alonso, is a smart and sassy, modern young woman stuck in 19th century Brasil- albeit with the perfect man, ala Jane Austen style.

Spanish
Normal stuff. Last Night I watched a few innings of the Puerto Rico vs Cuba baseball game in the Caribbean Series. Los puertorriqueños apalearon a los cubanos 12 - 1. The Telenovela I've been watching is ending in a few days. So, I'll have to find a way to fill that time. I sometimes have CNN en Español on the TV in the background during the day while I work. I read articles from El País, The AP en Español, El Nuevo Herald de Miami and BBC Mundo throughout the day. Spanish does indeed take care of itself.

Haitian Creole
Still watching 15 minutes of the news most days and reading an article on VOA everyday. Haitian Creole will be ready to ramp up again soon.

Lesser Antilles French Creole
Reading short tales on the Potomitan website and listening to Zouk music while I work at times. I think I may update the name of LAFC in my profile to "Kwéyòl" which is the name for the language that seems to be the most popular right now in St Lucia and Dominica. Lesser Antilles French Creole is a mouthful.

In other news, I have finally gotten around to re-writing my old "Multi-track approach" post from HTLAL with some updates. I still need to edit it somewhat. Doing this really shows up my writing skills as somewhat lacking. It will be on the static site.

[kujichagulia]

Inspiring stuff here! Keep it up, man... wait, I don't need to tell you that. That's advice I should give myself!

[iguanamon]

For all those who have asked, I have rewritten my post on the multi-track approach. rdearman has placed it on the static site, so, it's only a click away. I will not be posting it here as it would simply be redundant to have it in two places at the same time. From now on, when I provide a link to the multi-track approach, it will be to LLORG where the link goes.

[mitcht]

Out of curiosity what did you find good resources to learn portuguese? I've been tossing up between French and Portuguese for some time - french seems the more logical choice as I'm not terribly far from Quebec and far more likely to be dragged to France than Brazil by my girlfriend but I still can't seem to drop the idea of picking up Portuguese next.

[iguanamon]

Mitcht, thanks for stopping by. First, only you can judge if you are ready for Portuguese or not. The languages are estimated to be about 80% similar but it's that 20% that's different which is the devil in the details. If your Spanish isn't at a high enough level, Portuguese can seriously mess with your Spanish, and vice-versa. To this day, if I have been speaking either language (or reading, listening) for a long time, I can screw up either one for a while with the dreaded "portunhol". Don't get me wrong, Spanish was a huge help to me- once I became less afraid of using it to help me. Read this article by a Colombian journalist (en español) Daniel Samper: Eu não falo portuguguês. He wrote it tongue in cheek but there's a lot of truth in there about Spanish-speakers who think it will be a breeze to learn Portuguese. I know you are at an intermediate level in Spanish now. If you can read the Spanish in this article without any problems, then your Spanish level is probably high enough to start Portuguese. If not, you'll be better off waiting, in my opinion.

Let me tell you a little of my history learning Portuguese. I had been listening to Brazilian music for years. After I had reached an advanced enough level with Spanish maybe high B2/low C1. I started to learn Portuguese. My first mistake was trying the various "From Spanish to Portuguese" courses. I say "mistake" because I felt it made me look at Portuguese through a Spanish prism. It wasn't helping.

So I switched things up. I dropped the Spanish to Portuguese courses and started treating Portuguese as a language in its own right, which it is. I started doing the DLI Portuguese Basic Course and Pimsleur. My level of Spanish was such that I felt comfortable jumping in at Volume 4. I started Pimsleur though from the beginning and did all 90 lessons in 90 days, at the same time period as I was doing DLI. They worked well together. I found a lesson about Tom Jobim's song "Aguas de março" online and set about practically memorizing the song during this time. I also had the Deutsche Welle radionovelas- ten- 10 minute episodes in Mozambican Portuguese with a transcript. I started with reading and listening to Fábulas africanas and made my own parallel texts with the transcript from the English site. It all worked well together.

As I got to about volume 7 of DLI and had finished Pimsleur I hired a non-English speaking tutor for conversation and correction- and there was a lot of correction. After I was done with DLI, I had already read a couple of books and really started getting into reading. My tutor decided it was time for me to watch a novela, and we worked on that together. I had already been talking to her twice a week, listening to the NHK World news in Portuguese and RFI Brasil every day to train listening. I still listen to RFI Brasil for a half an hour every day. It's a habit.

If you do start learning Portuguese, don't push Spanish off to the side, it would be a shame to lose what you have worked so hard to gain. So there's your non-simple answer to a seemingly simple question.