The iguana's tale- Portuguese, Spanish, Haitian Creole and Ladino

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Luso
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Re: The iguana's tale- Portuguese, Spanish, Haitian Creole and Ladino

Postby Luso » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:24 pm

"La Casa de Sefarad es un lugar kultural i un muzeo de karákter privado i independiente. Su objetivo es rekuperar i restorar la erensia i identidad judeo-espanyola, sefaradí, komo un komponente fundamental de la identidad ispana. La Casa de Sefarad está en el korasón de la Judería de Córdoba. Djunto a la vieja Sinagoga, ande la calle Judíos se krusa con la calle Averroes.

La casa de Sefarad está donde deve estar."

I hope the spelling is correct. I copied it by hand. Thought you might enjoy it.
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iguanamon
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Re: The iguana's tale- Portuguese, Spanish, Haitian Creole and Ladino

Postby iguanamon » Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:41 pm

Valeu, Luso! Claro, gostei disso. There's some controversy over whether or not to write Djudeo-espanyol in Latin characters with accent marks since they don't exist in Rashi, Meruba or Solitreo scripts. Some scholars think that it's a slippery slope- that it may lead to words like "kon", "komo", "djente" being spelled like they are in Spanish. I tend to agree that the language should be preserved in the distinct form in which it was written and spoken in the unique Mediterranean caldo that formed it, as it continues its journey to no longer being a living language.

Ladino/Djueo-espanyol
Speaking of which, I'm finally making a serious effort to learn to read and write in Solitreo. Solitreo is Ladino cursive writing based on the printed Rashi script. Just like Rashi it's read from right to left. This is what Djudeo-espanyol speakers wrote in letters, postcards, margin notes and journals. Reading and writing in Solitreo is the last step I have to make me complete in all aspects of Ladino.

I am learning to read and write via a 128 page (letter sized) pdf booklet of exercises I downloaded from the Ladinokomunita forum and from a book by Professor David Bunis called A Guide To Reading and Writing Judezmo. Judezmo is yet another name for Djudeo-espanyol/Ladino. It simply means "Jewish".

Since I already know the language fairly well, it's just a matter of learning to recognize the script. The process is quite similar to how I learned to read in Rashi script- lots and lots of repetition and learning to recognize images of words automatically through that repetition. When I learned Rashi, I used a book with facing pages of Rashi and Latin script. This was an actual novel. For Solitreo the book I have is like this:
Image
It's not a gripping read, but it gets the job done. I have the same feeling of satisfaction and exhilaration as I am beginning to be able to read this script. I'm over half way through the book since I started it a couple of weeks ago and I do about an hour a day in the morning on my tablet. I scroll to where the Roman script is below, read the Solitreo, then confirm my reading with the Roman script by scrolling up.

Tolerance for tediousness and boredom is often necessary when trying to learn something like this. I don't consider it "boring" as I know it will open a new world of engaging with Djudeo-espanyol for me. That's what I focus on and that makes it not boring for me. Sometimes I see beginners struggling with doing what they have to do to learn certain aspects of a language be it grammar, conjugations, declensions, or listening. Learning a language is not always "with ease". It requires effort, engagement and work, along with the fun in my experience. Of course, some folks can go to the extreme of letting the work take over their learning and the opposite can also be true, letting the fun overwhelm the work of the routine of learning aspects that need work. As with most things in life, I feel there should be a balance of some kind. One reason I put off learning to read and write in Solitreo was so that my engagement with the language wouldn't consist of just work. I mean, come on. Look at this! This looks like a heck of a Iot of work to read doesn't it!
Image

So I read loads in Roman and Rashi scripts. I listened and enjoyed using the language. Now I'm ready to explore the last remaining aspect for me in the language.

This is part of what I mean by having no goals. I could have started this process of learning Djudeo-espanyol in a more rigid manner- learn Rashi script first, then Solitreo, then how to listen and write and speak. Instead I started off just wanting to learn about Sephardic culture and read the language in Roman script. I didn't think I would go much beyond that, but the more I learned the more I wanted to learn and it just kept expanding to the point that I am finally learning Solitreo now because it feels like the natural thing to do for me at this point. I want to do it now. :). Now, it's not work. It's fun!

M'a wè nou pita, orevwa
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iguanamon
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Re: The iguana's tale- Portuguese, Spanish, Haitian Creole and Ladino

Postby iguanamon » Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:35 pm

Ladino/Djudeo-espanyol
I've finished my Solitreo (Ladino cursive writing) exercises book and am now quickly re-reading it. I am also starting to write it in a notebook. I can read this author's version very well now after 128 pages. Still, it's not going to be as easy to internalize Solitreo in general as I did with reading Rashi (printed Hebrew script) because Solitreo is handwriting. People's handwriting, by definition, is highly individual. With Rashi, I've read over three thousand pages. I can read it quite easily now, as long as the scan is reasonably good. My thinking is that if I practice writing Solitreo, it should help me to internalize it better. I may take a photo of my writing and post it here at some point.

This has been a fun exercise and I'm looking forward to being able to decipher the odd bit of it that comes my way. I've also started trying to read the original version of A Jewish Voice From Ottoman Salonica, a memoir written in Solitreo, beginning with the preface/prefasyon. The Turkish version of Solitreo that I've learned differs a bit from the Salonican version. It's tough going but I'll just keep on reading it. I'll eventually get used to it. I'm glad I decided to learn to read Solitreo.



Spanish
I recently reactivated my netflix subscription after tiring of all the crap involved with streaming sites. My version, is the US version, sadly. I find it somewhat lacking in choice, but I am enjoying watching Ingobernable. I enjoyed Kate del Castillo's performance in La Reina del Sur. Her character this time has some similarities with Teresa Mendoza in that both are on the run. I'm about halfway through the series. It's well produced and acted. It definitely has a political agenda, and also deals with corruption, narcos and money laundering. The storyline isn't a typical Narco-novela (of which I am so tired). The trailer is below (with hard coded English subs- the series doesn't have them). I can recommend it.



Portuguese
I am still reading O homem do castelo alto by Philip K. Dick (translation). Still listening every day and watching some tv. Portuguese takes care of itself just as Spanish does. I just got a bunch of DVDs in the mail of old Brazilian miniseries and a classic novela- Tieta. I just can't seem to stay away from the Northeast of Brazil. This will be my third novela nordestina. I figure the hours of the box sets to be just over 300. Most of them are historical miniseries dramas. I got a pretty good deal on ebay. Of course, I would've preferred to buy what I would have really wanted directly from Brazil but ordering things from Brazil is nearly impossible for a foreigner. So, I took what I could get. 300 hours will last me a while., until I can get to Brazil again and buy more to take home with me.

Haitian Creole
Continuing to listen and read, every day. I feel the language becoming ever more a part of my life just as the others have become. It's a nice feeling.
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iguanamon
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Re: The iguana's tale- Portuguese, Spanish, Haitian Creole and Ladino

Postby iguanamon » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:52 pm

Portuguese
Work has been busy at present which hasn't left me enough time to read. I've still got a third of O homem do castelo alto left to finish. It's a very good book and I would recommend reading it in any language, especially if you like 1960's sci-fi/alt history/philosophy/cultural exploration. Philip K. Dick's works are hard to pin down with labels and often uneven but I find this work to be exceptional.

It's funny that almost all my news from France comes to me in Portuguese from RFI Brasil. Now that Brasil has changed time and gone back an hour, I've been watching the morning news streaming live from Globo São Paulo. It's followed by the talk show called Mais Você which also stars a puppet of a verde/amarelho parrot. I can only take so much of the "parrot"- é muito chato.

I follow Caetano Veloso on twitter. He's got some concerts coming up soon all over the world. I'd love to see him sing. He's an amazing talent. One of his earlier songs is here, singing and playing guitar with the also legendary Gilberto Gil- "Desde que o samba é samba". There are some great lines here- "A tristeza é senhora", "Solidão apavora", "Cantando eu mando a tristeza embora".



Spanish
A recent discussion with Chmury over at her log got me to thinking about the 1930's literary scene in Paris and Madrid. While not of Spanish nationality, the Chilean poet Pablo Neruda (my favorite poet) was a part of that scene. One of the benefits of learning Spanish for me was being able to read Neruda without translation. We also talked about Spanish poet Federico García Lorca, a contemporary and friend of Neruda. Sobre Lorca, bueno, eso es un otro cantar.

I didn't want to fill up Chmury's log with links and youtube videos, like I do here, but I came across a video of Jorge Drexler singing and cleverly putting to music one of Neruda's odes Oda al tomate. Spanish learners may find Neruda's odes to be somewhat more approachable. Tomato season is coming to an end here in the Caribbean, sadly. The nighttime low temperatures become too warm for them until October/November. But Northern Hemisphere temperate zone summer is on the horizon and will be full of plump, red and juicy tomatoes. Grow your own if you can!

Last edited by iguanamon on Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The iguana's tale- Portuguese, Spanish, Haitian Creole and Ladino

Postby Elenia » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:21 pm

My sister is growing tomatoes. Such an easy, affordable luxury! (They are much more enjoyable when you grow your own!)
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iguanamon
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Re: The iguana's tale- Portuguese, Spanish, Haitian Creole and Ladino

Postby iguanamon » Wed May 24, 2017 1:54 am

It's been a month since I've last posted to my log. No excuses, I've just not really felt like posting here. Three weeks ago I went up to the States, to New Orleans. It's my annual fix for live music and I take full advantage of it. Jazz Fest is a two weekend festival at the local racetrack, called the Fairgrounds. There are about 10 different stages filled with local, national and international artists of varied genres. Every year they feature a country and this year the featured country was Cuba. Of course, I was very happy about that.



It's not only music but New Orleans is famous for its cuisine and the venue is chock full of booths selling everything from gumbo and various types of "po-boy" sandwiches to Vietnamese, African and this year... Cuban food. I had tostones con salsa de ajo y habichuelas negras vegetarianas (fried green plantains with garlic sauce and vegetarian black beans). The recipe is here, in Spanish of course. People who were sitting near me kept asking me about what I was eating.

Image

Tostones are popular here on the island too. They can be made with breadfruit (pana) too. They're simple to prepare, but having a tostonera to hand, makes things easier. Plantains (a long green, banana-like fruit that is very starchy) and breadfruit are basically a substitute for potatoes in the tropics. Regular potatoes rot in the ground here and they rot if they're kept under the kitchen sink too, so they have to be stored in the fridge here (like bread, cookies and pasta; life in the tropics is different)! They're imported here, obviously. I like fresh, homegrown, food when possible, so, I buy my plantains at the local farmer's market. You can probably find them at any large, urban supermarket in the west. I was telling one of my friends how ironic it was that I came all the way to New Orleans to eat tostones. While there, I spoke some Haitian Creole and Spanish. Louisiana Creole is very transparent to me too, but I only heard it sung on stage.

Spanish
I just finished a wonderful book by a Mexican author, Laura Martínez Belli- La última página. I bought the physical book at a Miami airport kiosk. I had recognized the author's name because I had read the work of her aunt, Nicaraguan author Gioconda Belli. So I bought it "on spec".

This was one of the best books I've read in a year. It's the story of an early thirty something young woman (Soledad) who is struggling with low level jobs that have nothing to do with her university degree in literature. She does have a blog and twitter (with very few followers). She is "discovered" by a man who wants her to write down his memories and place them in an online banco de recuerdos. For Soledad it's her first chance to actually do what she's studied for all these years. For Eduard Castells, a Spanish immigrant from post civil war Barcelona, it's a chance to get his memories preserved before it's too late. He has Alzheimer's disease, unbeknownst to Soledad at first, and it is progressing rapidly. There are several surprises and plot twists along the way. The book explores this devastating disease and its effects on those who are close to the one who has it along with facets of what memory means and what is fiction vs what is reality. It also paints a picture of contemporary middle class Mexico City life including pop-culture references (just the right amount). The first paragraph explains where the book is going. Laura's writing is beautiful, sharp and well crafted. I thoroughly enjoyed this book and can't wait to read more of her work. I highly recommend this book.
Laura Martínez-Belli wrote:Morir, ese acto difícil y complejo es a veces precedido por el olvido. Un olvido que mata antes de la muerte porque sumerge en la misma nada. Pero de vez en cuando surge alguien capaz de burlarlo, aunque no eternamente ni por mucho tiempo, con las palabras.

Image
On another note, one of my dear (Spanish-speaking) friends and neighbors moved off-island, back to Puerto Rico, to care for her mother. I shall miss her greatly but look forward to occasional visits en "la isla del encanto". That being said, I couldn't escape Spanish here if I tried.

Lesser Antilles French Creole
The other day, I met a client who is originally St Lucian and we conducted part of our business in Kwéyòl. That was really nice. She asked me if I had lived in Haiti because I had a Haitian accent. St. Lucians and people from the island of Dominica are some of the hardest working people you'll ever find. It's a wonder they didn't end up running the British Empire from Castries! I'm quite happy to leave Kwéyòl where it is now.

Ladino; Haitian Creole; Portuguese
All are continuing apace. I listen to and read HC and Portuguese almost every day at some point. I'm still reading Djudeo-espanyol in Rashi and Solitreo. I'll talk more about them another time. Oh yeah, I finished Philip K. Dick's O homem do castelo alto.

Lastly, my heart goes out to the people of Manchester, England. This was a little too close to home for me, even though I'm thousands of miles away. I lived very near there for a few years in both Liverpool and Warrington. I've changed trains many, many times at Manchester Victoria Station near where the recent tragedy occurred. My kids live near Warrington. I was worried for my daughter last night who is of the age where she could have been at that concert. Thankfully, she was not. The world is becoming an ever smaller and smaller place, and also an increasingly violent and sometimes senseless place too. I pray for peace/paz/lapè.
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iguanamon
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Re: The iguana's tale- Portuguese, Spanish, Haitian Creole and Ladino

Postby iguanamon » Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:59 pm

Sometimes, I come across interesting tidbits about language in my twitter feed, like this one about a new typeface that combines Hebrew and Arabic scripts. Yeah, I thought it was weird too, until I read the article and watched the video.
Tablet Magazine wrote:A lot of public signage in Israel has both Hebrew and Arabic, but Israeli typographer Liron Lavi Turkenich has decided to explore the relationship between these two languages even further. Her typeface, which uses equal parts of both languages, is based on the principle that it is still possible, for the most part, to read and understand written sentences when the top or bottom half of each word is covered. With this in mind, Turkenich merged the bottom half of Hebrew with the top half of Arabic, weaving together a typeface that could be understood by speakers of both languages. “It started as an experimental project that was supposed to help me and help others not ignore the other scripts that are around us,” she said. ...


Spanish
Etymology has always been interesting to me. In the small Upper South town where I grew up in the US, my high school English teacher devoted the first 5-10 minutes of her class to etymology and I always found it fascinating. So, I saw a link to this article last week El astrónomo que recoge las palabras que vienen del cielo in El Confidencial de España.
El Confidencial wrote:Deseo es la palabra favorita de Kunth porque, aunque parece muy alejada del cielo, guarda un significado muy poético. "Viene del latín 'desiderare', compuesto de 'de', ausencia, y 'sidus', astro". Deseo es, por lo tanto, aquello que sentimos al dejar de contemplar una estrella. Canícula es "un viaje de tres países y culturas": los romanos fusionaron las creencias de egipcios (Sirio, la brillante estrella con la que marcaban el año y la llegada del calor) y griegos (Sirio, la pequeña perra que sigue al cazador Orión) para dar lugar a esta palabra que hace referencia al período más caluroso del año. ... Considerar (del latín 'cum', con, y 'sidus', estrella) es una palabra "de marineros" que, en su origen, se utilizaba para medir la posición de una estrella.

My favorite etymology story is about the English (American) word "alligator" which is a crocodilian animal similar to a caimán. When the first English explorers reached Florida they asked the Spanish what this large, toothy, long-tailed monster was. The Spanish said "¿el lagarto?"- "the lizard?". We English-speakers are not well known for our language skills, going back centuries apparently. The word got mangled into "alligator".

I've been reading La tormenta de nieve (The Snowstorm) by Lev Tolstoy (Tolstoi) in Spanish translation. It is certainly out of place living here in the tropical Caribbean, but it helps to keep me cool reading about a ferocious snowstorm and freezing cold in the vast expanse of the Russian steppe. Penguin documentaries help keep me cool too! Reading Tolstoy makes me want to learn Russian!

Ladino/Djudeo-espanyol
I also came across this humorous joke via twitter on the website "E Seferad". My loose translation follows:
Malka Kalderon via Matilda Koen-Sarrano wrote:Kazamiento felis?!
Happy marriage?!
De vista despues de la boda el marido dize a la mujer apenas kazada: “Yo tengo tres uzos ke tu deves entender i akseptar, entendites?”
Right after the wedding the husband says to his newlywed bride: "I have three habits/routines that you must understand and accept, you got that?
“Si!” responde la mujer.
"Yes" answers the wife.
“Muy bien! Primer uzo es ke kada alhad i martes a la noche yo djugo futbol kon los amigos del lavoro. Ay fiesta, no ay fiesta, a mi no me emporta de nada, yo esto en el futbol, entendites?”
"Great, My first habitual routine is that each Sunday and Tuesday night I play football with my friends from work. Whether there's a party or there isn't a party, it doesn't matter to me, I'm at football, you got that?"
“Si!” responde la mujer.
"Yes" answers the wife.
“Muy bien! Sigundo uzo es ke kada lunes i mierkoles a la noche yo vo a peshkar, ay kumpleanyo de tu madre, no ay kumpleanyo de tu madre, a mi no me emporta, yo vo a peshkar. Entendites?”
"Great! My second customary habit is that every Monday and Wednesday evening I go fishing, whether it's your mother's birthday or it isn't your mother's birthday, it doesn't matter to me, I'm going fishing. You got that?"
“Si!” responde la mujer.
"Yes" answers the wife.
“Muy bien! Treser uzo es ke kada noche de djugeves yo djugo poker kon mis ermanos, ay de ir a zmersar, no ay de ir a zmersar, a mí no me emporta. Entendites?”
"Great! My third customary routine is that every Thursday evening I play poker with my brothers, if you have to go shopping or you don't have to go shopping, it doesn't matter to me. You got that?"
“Si!” responde la mujer.
"Yes" answers the wife.
“Muy bien! Agora, tu tienes uzos ke keres ke yo sepa?”
"Great! Now, do you have any habits that you want me to know about?"
“Si!” responde la mujer, “Tengo un uzo solo. Yo kada noche ago seks, ay marido, no ay marido, a mi no me emporta. Entendites??”
"Yes" answers the wife, "I only have one routine. Every night I have sex, whether there's a husband, or there isn't a husband, it doesn't matter to me. You got that??"

Portuguese
Reading and listening everyday, writing and speaking occasionally. I've been listening to the new album, Fio da memória by Brazilian singer Luísa Maita. Luísa Maita has evolved from her first album and is gravitating more towards electronica with this new album. I prefer her first album "Lero Lero" where this song, "Alento" comes from. The video shows the gritty urbanity of my favorite Brazilian city, Sampa/São Paulo. Sampa is a hard city to love, não é o Rio, but if you make the effort, it will embrace you.

Haitian Creole
I've been reading a book of essays written in the mid to late 1980's for about a half an hour every morning before I get up out of bed. The essays are about varied topics and variations on a single topic. The other day, while I was waiting on a ferry, I spoke HC with a fellow passenger for over an hour. He was incredulous at first but like all Haitians upon hearing a "blan" speaking Kreyòl he was very friendly. I enjoyed our talk. Making new cross-cultural friends via a second language is one of the reasons I do this.
Last edited by iguanamon on Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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kunsttyv
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Re: The iguana's tale- Portuguese, Spanish, Haitian Creole and Ladino

Postby kunsttyv » Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:25 pm

Luísa Maita is amazing! And another great São Paulo based artist is Juçara Marçal and her Metá Metá. Someday I'll learn to understand this beautiful language.
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iguanamon
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Studies: Catalan (B2)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?t=797
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Re: The iguana's tale- Portuguese, Spanish, Haitian Creole and Ladino

Postby iguanamon » Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:15 pm

kunsttyv wrote:Luísa Maita is amazing! And another great São Paulo based artist is Juçara Marçal and her Metá Metá. Someday I'll learn to understand this beautiful language.

Yes, she is. I will also check out Jucara Marçal. Once you get Spanish down, Portuguese will be easier, but it's still not a "walk in the park". Learning Portuguese was very rewarding for me. By the way, I'm enjoying your Spanish Cinema log! Perhaps I may do something similar with Portuguese.

Luísa Maita's title cut from her new album Fio da memória
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Re: The iguana's tale- Portuguese, Spanish, Haitian Creole and Ladino

Postby Elenia » Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:53 pm

Caught up on your log again! This isn't language related, rather cultural. It took me a long time to realise that it was strange for us to keep our potatoes and bread in the fridge. I thought everyone did it. When I found out more about bread bins, I thought it was a thing upper middle class white people had. It was only reading your post that I realised that this was a cultural hangover. My mum was born in the UK but her parents and two oldest siblings were born in Jamaica. My dad came to the UK when he was about 11, and learnt much of what he knew about cooking and food preparation from his grandmother in Granada. All has become clear to me now - thank you for that!

(And, while we're on the subject, we never put ripe plantain in the fridge, although we tend to refrigerate green banana. I wonder if that is what you refer to as green plantain? The differences in the food terminology across the islands sometimes astounds me!)
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