From Argentina to Sweden: Astromule's log.

[astromule]

I'll begin this by introducing myself: I'm Martín from Argentina, 29 years old and a Lawyer. I did my career in ten years (from 2004 to 2013). During that period of my life I was busy studing for the University, so I didn't dedicate much time to languages, but I gathered many valuable pieces of information and resources through the years, such as the existence of the Assimil method, of the HTLAL community, of professor Arguelles and Luca Lampariello, among others.

I'll try to summarize 10 years of informal language learning research, so please apologize me if it's a bit messy. I'm also going to add information that I wrote originally for https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/wiki/index, so perhaps you're going to find some repetitions.

How did I learn English? Through the traditional method of going to a teacher once a week. I started going at 9 and ended at 18, where I took my FCE, First Certificate Exam. In the last year of University I resumed my formal studies of English to take the CPE, Cambridge Proficiency Exam.

How did I learn French? When I write “learn” I mean that I have a general comprehension of the language and that I can communicate in it fairly well, although it's far from perfect. I took one “intensive” year of formal French studies in 2008 at the local Alliance Française, 6 hours per week, in classes of 3 hours, twice a week. Simultaneously I did the 90 lessons of the Pimsleur French course. I remember listening over and over again the same CD records of Guy de Maupassant, to get the feel of the language and the pronunciation. Guy de Maupassant is one of my favourite writers, so those were stories that I had previously read in Spanish.

How did I learn Swedish? At 2006 I became interested in Sweden and I thought that the best way to approach its culture was to learn its language, so I started reading a little on how to learn languages. I think that was when I discovered the existence of HTLAL. I didn't know any French at the time, so Assimil was out of the question. What did I have? I had 10 lessons of Pimsleur and FSI, so I did both of them. Afterwards, I took two months of classes with a private tutor, one hour per week. Then I travelled to Sweden for two months, but only studied the language for two weeks, as that was the duration of the course. Most of my stay in Sweden I spoke in English.

How did I learn Portuguese? I did Pimsleur until lesson 45, more or less. Then I just began speaking with Brazilian friends. Nowadays I read and watch Brazilian media.

Until November 2014 I couldn't dedicate myself fully to learning languages, so one could say that I really started a few months ago. In the past it was always a stop and go process: I studied a little Swedish (2006), then I had to put it to sleep for a few years; I resumed the studies before my trip to Sweden (2010), then again to sleep. The same with French, as I was most of the time studing for the subjects at my Faculty.

My life changed when we got broadband internet and a proper computer in 2008: then I could start experiencing culture in a completely different form.

Methodology and learning techniques
At the beginning of 2004, when I started my Faculty, I had no idea of how to learn, so I began researching about memory techniques. The first book that I read on the subject was Ramon Campayo's “Desarrolla una mente prodigiosa”.

Eventually I'd read:

Moonwalking with Einstein, Joshua Foer.
The Practicing Mind, Thomas M. Sterner.
How to Pass Exams, Dominic O'Brien.
Breakthrough Rapid Reading, Peter Kump.
How to Win at College: Surprising Secrets for Success from the Country's Top Students , Cal Newport.
So Good They Can't Ignore You, Cal Newport.

But before that I discovered Supermemo's site and SRS. From that site and from others related I read the following articles:

http://www.lingholic.com/internet-can-h ... -language/
http://list25.com/25-foolproof-techniqu ... ur-memory/
http://mnemotechnics.org/wiki/Getting_Started

Effective learning: Twenty rules of formulating knowledge
http://www.supermemo.com/articles/20rules.htm

Polyphasic Sleep: Facts and Myths
http://www.supermemo.com/articles/polyphasic.htm

Formula for Healthy Sleep
http://www.supermemo.com/articles/sleepchart.htm

But I found out that Supermemo didn't work quite well for me, so I began experimenting with Anki, although I didn't really used systematically until November 2014, where I resumed my Swedish studies and began reading books about language learning:

How to Learn a Foreign Language, Paul Pimsleur: this book is from the creator of the Pimsleur method. Short, easy to read.

Fluent Forever, Gabriel Wyner: as the author describes it, it's a "SRS book". Actually, is much more than that, as it presents the last advancements in terms of language communities and applications. Also it mentions the study of "minimal pairs" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimal_pair)

How to Learn Any Language (To Enjoy It), Barry Farber: they experiences of a self-taught polyglot.

Success With Foreign Languages: Seven Who Achieved It and What Worked for Them, Earl W. Stevick: a comparison between different polyglots and the strategies that they used.

Babel No More: The Search for the World's Most Extraordinary Language Learners, Michael Erard: a historic account on "classic" polyglots, such as Mezzofanti, Emil Krebs, Erik Gunnemark and Alexander Arguelles.

The Art and Science of Learning Languages, by Amorey Gethin and Erik V. Gunnemark: practical advice from two experienced polyglots.

How to Improve Your Foreign Language Immediately, by Boris Shekhtman, a short and precise book by a former FSI Russian teacher.


I tried to implement Wyner's advice on creating SRS cards, and although I'm using some of his recommendations, I'm doing what I think works best for me.

Here's a gallery of my Anki cards through time: https://imgur.com/a/QhvdE

A card that I made today: https://i.imgur.com/MYnk2Ie.jpg

Not all the pictures correspond to Anki cards. I worked also with an Excel document where I wrote different dialogues, to use with language partners through Skype, although this method was really time consuming and it presented the challenge of incorporating too much new vocabulary at once, in comparison with incorporating short phrases that you can manage, as with Assimil.

Another article that marked me was Luca Lampariello's http://www.thepolyglotdream.com/an-easy ... languages/, as I took that as a pillar from where to build my own personal method.

Some recommended techniques/resources that didn't work for me:

-Memrise: I can't memorize words without context. Even with Anki, I've found out that the most efficient method for me is to put the recorded dialogs from Assimil, rather that loose words taken from anywhere. In the beginning I used Ivona voices (https://www.ivona.com/), but I'm not working anymore with them, as I think the lack of “humanity” is the recordings makes them harder to memorize.

-Frequency dictionaries: the same as with Memrise, it doesn't work for me to incorporate word-for-word.


Which is my current method?

1) Start doing a good course of Assimil, that is, if the old edition is better, do the old one.

2) Edit each lesson with Audacity and then add those tracks into Anki, following this format:

side A: your recorded voice in your native language

side B:
The copied Assimil phrase from the book
You, pronouncing the phrase
“Assimil” pronouncing the phrase.

Sometimes I add a picture for difficult words, using the old Google Search Engine for pictures, filtered for the country/language that I'm studing (in the example, Sweden):

https://www.google.com.ar/search?q=lago ... do8M6B4DwA

I use a stopwatch to manage time and I write in a ODT document how much time I dedicate to each language and what do I do.

As I progress with the language (let's say, when I've finished one Assimil course), I start watching TV-series in the language that I'm learning. If there are subtitles in the target language, I'll watch the episodes creating bilingual subtitles with these two resources:

http://www.syedgakbar.com/projects/dst

and

http://pas-bien.net/2srt2ass/

Otherwise, I just see the series with English or Spanish subtitles.

The last improvements that I've made are in debt with the following talks from the Polyglot Conference:

Reading Literature in Foreign Languages: Tool, Techniques, Target, by Alexander Arguelles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUqME-RTtIs

Maintaining Multiple Languages At Once, by Richard Simcott

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAzj6P_uxwA

How to Develop a Language Learning Method, by Luca Lampariello

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ii7J6mr2jI

The Best Way to Learn New Vocabulary: frequency lists, extensive reading and word collocations, by Anthony Lauder

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X7XTui58Qs

A normal study day looks like this:

domingo 19.07

portugués: 2.26
ruso 046
italiano 032
sueco 002
francés 028

012, porta ["Porta dos fundos", a youtube channel in Portuguese.]
028, porta hasta “com quem será” inclusive
020, porta hasta “de bêbado” inclusive.
019, assimil ruso repaso, unidades 6-9.
025, assimil italiano 57 repaso, hasta u23 inclusive.
007, assimil italiano 86 repaso, u1-4.
042, porta hasta “amante”.
027, ruso assimil repaso audio 1-10
002, sueco repaso rivstart pdf p.7
028, L'Étranger, video con subs. Retomar a partir capítulo 2,
“En me réveillant, j'ai compris pourquoi mon patron avait l'air mécontent quand je lui ai demandé mes deux jours de congé”.
044, porta, hasta “despedida de solteiro”.

Any suggestions/questions on how to improve this log are welcomed.

Astromule.

[rdearman]

WOW! Great start! I am definately going to book mark your log for reading.

[astromule]

Thank you rdearman!

[emk]

Wow, that's an excellent bibliography of language-learning books. I will also be following your log.

Which is my current method?

1) Start doing a good course of Assimil, that is, if the old edition is better, do the old one.

2) Edit each lesson with Audacity and then add those tracks into Anki, following this format:

...

As I progress with the language (let's say, when I've finished one Assimil course), I start watching TV-series in the language that I'm learning. If there are subtitles in the target language, I'll watch the episodes creating bilingual subtitles with these two resources:

...

Otherwise, I just see the series with English or Spanish subtitles.

This is very similar to how I learned French: Assimil, followed by SRS, television series and books. I was amazed at how much the TV helped me; it seemed almost to good to be true.

But since it sounds like you enjoying tackling TV early on, and since you already work with longer chunks of audio in Anki, you might be interested by a recent experiment I tried with Spanish. I found an easy, familiar TV series in Spanish, with accurate Spanish and English subtitles. I then fed everything through Subs2SRS to produce a deck of cards with audio and an image on the front, and bilingual text on the back:



These cards, plus a $8 poster and a $4 grammar book were pretty much my only resources. This experiment was inspired by Sprachprofi's similar Japanese experiment, and you can find some highlights in my log. But in a nutshell, it worked a lot like Assimil, except with interesting native audio and full SRS support. Sprachprofi had pretty amazing results—but then again, she's a pretty amazing polyglot. As for me, I made solid progress for the time invested.

I'll definitely keep following your log, and I'll check out a couple of those language-learning books you've mentioned. I've read several books from your list already, and they were all excellent, so I figure the others should be safe bet.

[astromule]

Hi emk! Yes, I worked a little with Subs2Srs in the past, but I didn't dedicate myself enough to it. It was one episode from a Swedish TV-series that was among other Anki decks. So, according to Judith's article, one should put around 1 hour per day to make it work.

I'll definitely put a reminder for Subs2Srs, as it's a great program and a fun way of learning vocabulary, as it provides context and emotional involvement.

I'll check your log too, as I'm also learning French.

Otherwise, I just see the series with English or Spanish subtitles.

This is very similar to how I learned French: Assimil, followed by SRS, television series and books. I was amazed at how much the TV helped me; it seemed almost to good to be true.

But since it sounds like you enjoying tackling TV early on, and since you already work with longer chunks of audio in Anki, you might be interested by a recent experiment I tried with Spanish. I found an easy, familiar TV series in Spanish, with accurate Spanish and English subtitles. I then fed everything through Subs2SRS to produce a deck of cards with audio and an image on the front, and bilingual text on the back:
[/quote]

[astromule]

Hi! Today I'm going to share a few tips that have helped me in the recent past.

CSE

What is a CSE? It's a "custom search engine", that is, an engine with only predefined sites.

What's its utility? I use it to filter newspapers, when I want to search for a word in context for the TL (target language). For example, I have one for Swedish newspapers, that looks like this: http://i.imgur.com/YJ2bgzQ.jpg

How do I set it up? http://www.guidingtech.com/9539/create- ... oogle-cse/

Let's suppose that you're looking for the word "lagom". You enter the search term and you should have something like this: http://i.imgur.com/c9AJjhO.jpg

With that context, you can start making Anki flashcards.

OLD GOOGLE ENGINE

I usually use the old Google search engine for pictures (the one that has the text below the photos) and was wondering how to search pictures in one specific domain.

To search only ".it" domains (Italy), type:

https://www.google.com.ar/search?q=corr ... AYZ9c-SgRI

For Sweden, just change the "=countryIT" to "=countrySE"

Then it would be

https://www.google.com.ar/search?q=corr ... AYZ9c-SgRI

Here's the list of all Google's domains:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Google_domains

Why can't you use the normal image search? Because it doesn't have the text below, words that you can use to know in which way the picture is related with the word that you have searched. Polyglot Gabriel Wyner (http://www.amazon.com/Fluent-Forever-Le ... riel+wyner) recommends this method to create Anki cards, to search for images in context (with the text below), regarding the specific culture/language that you're learning. There are words that the engine will attribute to your language of choice automatically, but perhaps other words are going to be confused between several languages. As with everything, it's just another resource that can be useful to some people.

IMDB

This is to see the list of the most popular TV shows in a particular language.

Just change the "languages=x" parameter to your convenience.

Here you can see a list of languages and their respective abbreviation: http://www.imdb.com/search/title?langua ... =languages

That is, Spanish= es; German= de; Russian= ru, etc.

Examples:

Swedish: http://www.imdb.com/search/title?langua ... =tv_series

Portuguese http://www.imdb.com/search/title?langua ... =tv_series

How do I switch it to movies?

Change the =sv; =pt, to your language of choice:

Swedish example:

http://www.imdb.com/search/title?langua ... =languages

Portuguese example:

http://www.imdb.com/search/title?langua ... =languages

can't find the option to sort by language. How do you do it?

1) Go to this link: http://www.imdb.com/search/title?langua ... =languages

2) You'll see several languages at the right, that have a link that at some point says "...languages=he" (example for Hebrew).

3) Put your mouse cursor over one of those languages.

4) Then take that "=he" and you replace it here: http://www.imdb.com/search/title?langua ... =tv_series

5) Instead of "sv" you write "he".

CREATE A NEW ANKI DECK USING YOUR OLD TAGS

I want to create a new deck to study my Swedish cards that have the following tags: "38", "39", "40".

I know there's the option "tools>create filtered deck", but that just creates a temporary deck.

How can I build a permanent new deck using those tags?


You can just put your query in Anki browser, select the card results with Ctrl-A (or with the mouse), then press Change Deck and move them to a new Deck you already created.

For this query you could use the "OR" keyword, otherwise you have to do each tag individually ("AND" is the silent default keyword). For example,

"tag:38 or tag:39 or tag:40"


A PROBLEM USING SUBS2SRS

I've started using subs2srs. I've used two srt files, the original in Swedish (target language) and the second one in English.

The conversion was correct (audio, images), but the problem is this: http://imgur.com/skLYZBk

It should say "Hur kan du jämföra mamma med dem? Jag vill aldrig mer se dig. Försvinn!"

How can I fix those "[?]" boxes?

I've solved the problem using Notepad++

Codification>(the original .srt was ANSI) convert to UTF-8>save file.


DELETING SUSPENDED CARDS IN ANKI

browser>search bar>"deck:Ruso02 is:suspended" (as my deck is called "Ruso02").

The same if you're looking for a certain tag: "deck:ruso02 tag:assimil"

Then CTRL+A> delete

ANKI TEMPLATE PROBLEM

In the past I imported some decks from Gabriel Wyner's site, but now I have several deck types that I don't use. How can I remove the tags from different decks? Example: http://i.imgur.com/EP15SgH.jpg I only need the basic deck, the reverse and the cloze. I don't need "passé composé" and the other "basics". The other question regards the template used for the Basic card. Here's what I currently have: http://i.imgur.com/m1ZL65s.jpg The problem is that it's repeating the sentences in the wrong places. What text should I have on the templates, for a plain "question-answer" card?

Note types? You can delete them by going to Tools -> Manage Note Types, or pressing Ctrl+Shift+N at the main Anki screen

MY FAVOURITE ANKI ADDONS FOR LEARNING LANGUAGES

Anki TTS https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/301952613

Anki frozen fields: https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/2819760111

I've just began using the last one, but it seems very useful.

And I haven't used the following, as my audio needs are covered by TTS, but I think it's always good to remember.

Anki "dowload audio" plugin https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/3100585138

Other interesting plugins:

Hanzi Stroke Order Animation (it would be good to know if someone learning Chinese has used this and if it's useful)

https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/45911888

Image Occlusion:

https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/282798835

[astromule]

This is the list of all the Swedish media that I've watched so far. The list goes from newest to oldest.

Wallander, 2005: Swedish subtitles for just a few episodes.
TPB AFK: The Pirate Bay Away from Keyboard (2013), Simon Klose: Swedish subtitles.
Tusenbröder, 2002: Swedish subtitles for all seasons.
Anno 1790, 2011: just English subtitles.
Persona, Ingmar Bergman, 1966: just English subtitles.
Kvarteret Korpen, Bo Widerberg, 1963: just English subtitles.
Det sjunde inseglet, Ingmar Bergman, 1957: Swedish subtitles.
Äkta människor: Swedish subtitles for all the series.
Jordskott: Swedish subtitles for all the series.
Hundraåringen som klev ut genom fönstret och försvann, Felix Herngren, 2013: Swedish subtitles.
Låt den rätte komma in, Tomas Aldredson, 2008: Swedish subtitles.
Force Majeure, Ruben Östlund, 2014: Swedish subtitles.
Blå ögon: Swedish subtitles for all the series.
Bron: Swedish subtitles for all the series.

This three I have watched just with Swedish subtitles. The rest, with English/Swedish subtitles at the same time. Or just English, when Swedish was unavailable.

Fosterland, : Swedish subtitles for all the series.
http://www.svtplay.se/video/2574547/soka-ljus (no longer available at SVT)
Zambezi – den mullrande floden – SVT Play (no longer available at SVT)

An excellent addon for Firefox and Chrome is Modify Headers, as it allows you to watch foreign media from any country:

https://addons.mozilla.org/es/firefox/a ... y-headers/
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/deta ... bkglpmogdi

Example (Firefox): http://i.imgur.com/ZnrAGxD.jpg
Example (Chrome): http://i.imgur.com/SM8jII3.jpg

The other addon that I use all the time is "Gtranslate": just put your mouse over some foreign text and you'll get an instant translation:
https://addons.mozilla.org/es/firefox/addon/gtranslate/

[astromule]

Regarding books, I first read the book in Spanish and then I read the Swedish version. I also listen to the audiobook once I've finished reading the Spanish version. I use it as a "backround noise" while doing others activities on the PC. Would it be better to just listen to the book without doing anything else? Sure! But it would also be worst not to listen at anything at all, so...

So far I've read

Cirkeln, av Mats Strandberg and Sarah Bergmark.
Kinessen, av Henning Mankell.

Currenlty I'm reading "Eld" in Swedish, the second part of the Engelsfors trilogy (http://www.worldofengelsfors.com/the-trilogy/)

I've also read a few books by the Finnish writer Arto Paasilina, but I found out that the Swedish translation was a little over my level (too many unknown words). Perhaps I'll return to him in the future.

If you're interested in reading in Swedish and you've an intermediate level, be sure to check this list: https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/344 ... uth_novels

[astromule]

I find this article from Judith Meyer to be excellent. It made me switch from Pimsleur to Michel Thomas, although I still think that Pimsleur is better than traditional courses alone. For example, taking just one hour a week of a groupal class. The other disadvantage that I've encountered using Pimsleur and Glossika is that they all have the same structure for all languages. Assimil, on the contrary, varies its dialogs from language to language, which makes it much easier for me to remember them. It's much better to use motivation/interest for the most part of the language learning process and reserve "brute force" for the minimal part of the material, such as finishing an Assimil lesson that day.

Source: https://www.quora.com/What-method-do-po ... w-language

There are significant differences between the methods favoured by the most well-known internet polyglots. For example they cannot agree on:

how much grammar study is necessary
whether accent practice is important
whether to have a silent absorption period at the beginning or to speak from day one
whether exposure to foreign TV (even with subtitles) or radio is worthwhile at all if you don't understand much
whether the ultimate goal is a) to be mistaken for a native speaker or b) to be able to discuss academic subjects or c) to be able to read literature
whether old materials or modern materials are the best


The only thing they have in common is that they all spend a LOT of time on languages, which is why I said that time spent is the most important factor of all; more important than method.

That being said, you are right to observe that polyglots tend to dislike Pimsleur. Pimsleur is inefficient time-wise, because it only teaches 5-6 words per 30 minute lesson. For comparison: Pod101 generally teaches 10-12 words per 15 minute lesson. Michel Thomas also uses a faster pace, though harder to compare because Michel Thomas focuses almost entirely on grammar / neat expressions that you can plug words into. The only polyglots I heard recommend Pimsleur said that they like to use a few lessons of it in the beginning in order to develop their accent and comfort level in a new language. Michel Thomas has more fans among polyglots, but not as many as Assimil. I definitely wouldn't put him in the same category as Pimsleur.

Assimil is popular because there's a lot of meat to eat: almost every one of their books contains 100 lessons and claims to lead you up to B2 (upper intermediate) level. Whether it's really B2 is debated on polyglot forums, but there's no doubt that Assimil courses cover a whole lot more words and grammar and idioms than most other courses which leave you well within beginner territory (or tourist territory). Also, Assimil neatly straddles the divide between older-is-better and newer-is-better polyglots: many of the older-is-better crowd like Assimil's "without toil" courses dating back to the 50s and 60s, while a good share of the modernists like the new Assimil courses. The courses have adapted a bit over time.

Apart from Assimil, polyglots also tend to use Teach Yourself or Colloquial or Langenscheidt or any courses of the same structure, though you'll find less fanatics for these. The exact choice often depends not just on the brand but also the language you want to learn, because all the good publishers give their writers significant freedom in designing the courses, resulting in some that are much better than others. Even Assimil has a few fluke courses that even Assimil fans won't touch.


Then of course there are all the indie courses that only exist for one language - in my experience, these are usually very good, because there is no company trying to fit a one-size-fits-all approach on them. The internet in particular has many free non-branded language courses that are of exceptional quality (esp. if you're a modernist), usually created by universities or national radio stations. I wrote entire books about the abundance of high-quality free online language courses/materials.

Then there are people who don't use anything like a textbook. For example, they might start by studying a phrasebook and then learn anything else in conversation with a teacher. Or they use the Listening-Reading Method of reading literature in parallel texts with audio, right from the start. Steve Kaufman, the LingQ guy, also starts out by reading.

So one can't say that someone is a newbie just based on his favourite courses. Except if they're LiveMocha or Rosetta Stone. Rosetta Stone spends almost its entire budget on marketing, leaving little money to develop good courses, while also succeeding in convincing all non-learners that their courses are amazing. I can't count the number of times someone who hasn't learned any language in the past decade(s) has told me "Oh, you love learning languages? You should check out Rosetta Stone, they're really good!". LiveMocha was an attempt to create a free open-source clone of Rosetta Stone, using crowdsourcing, which unsurprisingly resulted in an even worse product than the original (too many cooks).

So there's really no one answer to this. If you have a particular polyglot in mind, google him and you should be able to find what his preferred method is.

[Mohave]

Welcome! I am also learning French - I suspect we are near the same level, and I plan to follow your log. Thanks for all of the awesome links and ideas!