Re: PM’s French Re-entry into the Matrix - Phase 1: 500 Hours Extensive Reading

Continue or start your personal language log here, including logs for challenge participants
User avatar
PeterMollenburg
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3229
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:54 am
Location: Australia
Languages: English (N), French (B2-certified), Dutch (High A2?), Spanish (~A1), German (long-forgotten 99%), Norwegian (false starts in 2020 & 2021)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18080
x 8029

Re: PM's French Courses Mission

Postby PeterMollenburg » Tue May 23, 2017 1:51 pm

jeffers wrote:I've had thoughts of my own about two of your issues for after your exam:

1. Taking a break from French. Taking a break isn't a bad idea at all. The only case where it would be an issue would be the student who takes a break and never comes back. However, taking a break from studying French doesn't mean you have to take a break from using French. For example, there is no way you could stop French phrases, words and responses coming to you unbidden at times. French is in you, and you're not going to get away from it. So go with it, and when you take a break from studying French, just enjoy the language: You might still watch TV in French, read in French, or listen to music because you like to do it.

Another good way to take a break from studying French but still using it would be to get the Assimil textbook in French for whatever other language you pick up. I know you probably have 10 textbooks in the language already. But if you work on your 3rd language through the medium of French alone you will find several benefits (which are best discussed elsewhere).

2. Listening while you kayak. I like listening while exercising, but it doesn't work well with all types of exercise. I think you need to be listening to something that doesn't really require your full attention because you want to concentrate on what you're doing and enjoy the outdoors. I'd suggest listening to music; it's surprising how after you get to know a song or an album the words begin to make sense without you really trying or concentrating. If you can pay a bit more attention, podcasts or audiobooks might be good.


Those are my two bits. Meanwhile, best of luck with your exam and give us all the gory details!


I've been wanting to thank you, Jeffers, for your intelligent reflections. I did in the end to decide that I will return to French only, but I do think your thoughts here on taking breaks are sound. On my break I've continued to engage with French in many forms, as you suggested, with no formal study occurring as planned, and no pressure that I have to do anything.

Still, even after 3.5 years of solid French, I remain just as passionate and determined to continue with my French journey, the long way round. I'm itching to get back to it! And now I have my 2 very thick desk-top dictionaries too. Le Petit Robert and Collins Robert EN-FR-EN. My only complaint so far with both is the rather small font. A little too small for my liking.

Music while kayaking will bother me. Too much constant sound. I found reviewing Assimil good since there is plenty of silent spaces giving me more of a chance to hear the water as the blades of my paddle enter and exit the surface of the river. Thus, podcasts and course reviews will suit best, but you never know. I'll try music sometime on for size ;)

jeffers wrote:I may have missed this, but could you tell us how long the audio clips were?

From your description, it seems that the listening component works like a traditional "listening comprehension exercise"; i.e. listen to an extract and answer a bunch of questions about it. I guess that shouldn't be a surprise. To me this means that using materials like they have on GLOSS https://gloss.dliflc.edu/Default.aspx is likely to be pretty useful preparation for the exams.


Hey Jeffers,
The first audio clip was 5 minutes in length, 2 listens. The second between 2 and 3 min I think, one listen.

Serpent has often recommended Gloss, and I think for good reason- it appears to be an excellent listening resource. Unfortunately, despite good intentions, I've not yet managed to utilise it. Some day I shall.
4 x

User avatar
PeterMollenburg
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3229
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:54 am
Location: Australia
Languages: English (N), French (B2-certified), Dutch (High A2?), Spanish (~A1), German (long-forgotten 99%), Norwegian (false starts in 2020 & 2021)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18080
x 8029

Re: PM's French Courses Mission

Postby PeterMollenburg » Thu May 25, 2017 12:30 pm

Well, contrary to what I expected, I already have the results of the DELF B2.

Anticipated DELF B2 results:

Listening: 8/25
Reading: 22/25
Writing: 20/25
Speaking: 23/25
TOTAL: 73/100
------------------------------------
Actual DELF B2 results

Listening: 19/25
Reading: 17.5/25
Writing: 21/25
Speaking: 23.5/25
TOTAL: 81/100
-----------------------------------

Thoughts-
Very pleased with myself indeed! I'm glad I made it into the above 80 grade, which in my day in school, usually meant an A-grade. Gotta be pleased with that.

• I was shocked with my listening score. I expected soooo much less than that.
• I was mildly surprised with my somewhat weaker score on reading than anticipated.
• Very pleased with my writing and speaking scores, both pretty close to what I expected but even better. I think I ought to be proud with such a good speaking score given really in all honesty, minimal interaction with other French speakers throughout my French learning journey thus far.
• I checked back at my old B1 scores which was 79/100 overall, so again, happy to have improved on that too.

Congrats to me monsieur le PM. What a zozo I am, a chuffed one who did pretty well on his B2 afterall :)

Throw a cat over your shoulder
22 x

User avatar
blaurebell
Blue Belt
Posts: 840
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:24 pm
Location: Spain
Languages: German (N), English (C2), Spanish (B2-C1), French (B2+ passive), Italian (A2), Russian (Beginner)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3235
x 2240

Re: PM's French Courses Mission

Postby blaurebell » Thu May 25, 2017 12:52 pm

Yay, congrats! Didn't we all tell you that you're going to pass? And your score is really great, especially the speaking and writing score! I think for most people it would be the other way round with self-study, reading + listening better than speaking and writing! WELL DONE!

Now C1 :) You know the drill though: 99% of courses are mainly for production up to B2 level, they don't help for C1 at all unless you have massive grammar gaps, which of course you don't after doing so many courses! Instead you need massive input and output! I think instead of 2h courses + 1h input you should probably go with 1h of courses only + Super Challenge + Output Challenge. Do you keep track of how much you read? My C1 goals for Spanish are 10,000+ pages + 500h of native audio.
5 x
: 20 / 100 Дэвид Эддингс - В поисках камня
: 14325 / 35000 LWT Known

: 17 / 55 FSI Spanish Basic
: 100 / 116 GdUdE B
: 8 / 72 Duolingo reverse Spanish -> German

User avatar
Jim
Orange Belt
Posts: 142
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:18 pm
Languages: English (N), French (intermediate), Spanish (frosty intermediate), Russian (beginner)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5766
x 254

Re: PM's French Courses Mission

Postby Jim » Thu May 25, 2017 12:58 pm

Fantastic result. Very well done to you PM!
3 x
La hora más oscura es la que viene antes del nacimiento del sol

Merci de corriger mes erreurs !

User avatar
Prohairesis
White Belt
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 2:29 pm
Languages: Thai (N), English (N), French (C2), German (C1)
x 98
Contact:

Re: PM's French Courses Mission

Postby Prohairesis » Thu May 25, 2017 1:16 pm

Excellent results, keep up the good work !
3 x

User avatar
PeterMollenburg
Black Belt - 3rd Dan
Posts: 3229
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:54 am
Location: Australia
Languages: English (N), French (B2-certified), Dutch (High A2?), Spanish (~A1), German (long-forgotten 99%), Norwegian (false starts in 2020 & 2021)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18080
x 8029

Re: PM's French Courses Mission

Postby PeterMollenburg » Thu May 25, 2017 1:20 pm

blaurebell wrote:Yay, congrats! Didn't we all tell you that you're going to pass?


Ummm, maybe? :? Yes indeed you did ;)

blaurebell wrote:And your score is really great, especially the speaking and writing score! I think for most people it would be the other way round with self-study, reading + listening better than speaking and writing! WELL DONE!


Jim wrote:Fantastic result. Very well done to you PM!


Prohairesis wrote:Excellent results, keep up the good work !


Thank you blaurebell :) Thank you Jim. And thanks Prohairesis.

Yeah, I'm pretty bloody happy I must say. And cheesily grin cheese-like cheese over double cheese plus a slice of cheese in the middle and a few on the side please pleased happy with the speaking and writing scores - the 2 areas I paid the least attention to throughout my studies. However I do speak constantly- read out loud, hammer pronunciation etc, must've paid off- at least what I do say I tend to say it pretty well I guess. And I felt my writing needed little attention. Guess I was right, but I did continually write responses in my anki cards, maybe that helped.

Interestingly though, when you think about it, speaking and writing enable the learner to choose what it is they are going to say or write- thus less room for error and more control. While with listening and reading, one has no choice over the content that as presented to you. Perhaps this is why multiple courses have resulted in such a result for me, and perhaps this is why a case for reading and listening more (ahem: SC) is likely highly beneficial at this point.

blaurebell wrote:Now C1 :) You know the drill though: 99% of courses are mainly for production up to B2 level, they don't help for C1 at all unless you have massive grammar gaps, which of course you don't after doing so many courses! Instead you need massive input and output! I think instead of 2h courses + 1h input you should probably go with 1h of courses only + Super Challenge + Output Challenge. Do you keep track of how much you read? My C1 goals for Spanish are 10,000+ pages + 500h of native audio.


Yes, this is a dilemma for me. I am STILL massively attracted to courses. I have a huge list lying in wait, and all I can think about is how to get through all of them. My latest study routine/plan includes 3 hours of courses a day and no allotted time for listening or reading (with an aim to doing those things where I can find gaps in the day- commuting for example = listening practise).

I do think I can provide at least some evidence that courses can get you a pretty long way. In fact I still believe you can reach C1 through courses alone... BUT I think it takes longer as it really is like doing intensive study all the time, and that's slow. In an ideal world, now that I can speak from experience up to this point, courses can indeed get you a fair way, but the balance ought to be shifing gradually as one advances in language level. And I agree that at C1/C2 levels, courses are not ideal or not efficient to be using as the main component of one's study necessarily. However use them as a part of your overall routine, which you've suggested blaurebell, then they help point out little grammatical points of interest that help clarify things for the learner who should be consuming loads of native content to feel like a native among natives. This doesn't seem to fit me well given my track record, and I have a load of courses I really really am so enthusiastic about ploughing through, so what does one do when one is me? Go against the grain and be me, or go against me and become a new me? Hmmm me, that is the dilemma.

Deep down I think you're right blaurebell. I stand to gain more by working on things i've not done a lot of before (SC) while keeping up with some course use for reference, fun and for working to my strongsuit still at least to some degree. Just dunno if I can bring myself to do it.

PS: I've not really any interest in the output challenge. Oh, and I do count study hours, but not pages- although i did at one point. Perhaps that could be a good motivator though I guess, worth considering.
3 x

User avatar
smallwhite
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2386
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:55 am
Location: Hong Kong
Languages: Native: Cantonese;
Good: English, French, Spanish, Italian;
Mediocre: Mandarin, German, Swedish, Dutch.
.
x 4876

Re: PM's French Courses Mission

Postby smallwhite » Thu May 25, 2017 1:58 pm

:P Someone has updated his profile :P

Congrats!

That's a very good score. About time people stopped giving you advice and started asking you for it instead. So in your expert opinion, which 100 Greek courses should I get? :P
9 x
Dialang or it didn't happen.

User avatar
rdearman
Site Admin
Posts: 7231
Joined: Thu May 14, 2015 4:18 pm
Location: United Kingdom
Languages: English (N)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1836
x 23125
Contact:

Re: PM's French Courses Mission

Postby rdearman » Thu May 25, 2017 2:08 pm

Congratulations ! :D

Aren't you glad you didn't skip the test. Just out of curiousity, how many hours do you think you did to get to this B2 ?
6 x
: 0 / 150 Read 150 books in 2024

My YouTube Channel
The Autodidactic Podcast
My Author's Newsletter

I post on this forum with mobile devices, so excuse short msgs and typos.

User avatar
iguanamon
Black Belt - 2nd Dan
Posts: 2354
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:14 am
Location: Virgin Islands
Languages: Speaks: English (Native); Spanish (C2); Portuguese (C2); Haitian Creole (C1); Ladino/Djudeo-espanyol (C1); Lesser Antilles French Creole (B2)
Studies: Catalan
Language Log: viewtopic.php?t=797
x 14193

Re: PM's French Courses Mission

Postby iguanamon » Thu May 25, 2017 2:20 pm

Congratulations, Msyè PM! You've done quite well, and you did it your way!
2 x

Online
User avatar
tastyonions
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1576
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:39 pm
Location: Dallas, TX
Languages: EN (N), FR, ES, DE, IT, PT, NL, EL
x 3867

Re: PM's French Courses Mission

Postby tastyonions » Thu May 25, 2017 2:30 pm

Félicitations! Je pensais que tes efforts porteraient leurs fruits. Je ne partage pas trop ton engouement pour les cours mais tes méthodes t'ont permis d'atteindre ton but et c'est ça qui est le plus important en fin de compte.
4 x


Return to “Language logs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: jackb and 3 guests