James29's Spanish and French Log

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NoManches
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Re: James29's Spanish (and sometimes French) Log

Postby NoManches » Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:07 pm

James29 wrote:Last week I was traveling but I kept up with my Spanish. I feel like I've already started on my Spanish goals for 2017. I really want/need to boost my Spanish up a level. I am quite pleased with my Spanish and never really dreamed of being able to use the language for so many things. For the first few years of my Spanish journey my goals were to be able to read adult level books and have meaningful conversations at what would roughly be the B2-ish level. I can say I have definitely met and exceeded those goals.

My Spanish is acceptable for what I need. I want to use my Spanish for business purposes and be able to feel like I can completely dominate the language in the sphere of my business. I don't think I can do that right now. I can certainly conduct all aspects of business in Spanish, but I'd say I am at the lowest level of dominating Spanish for business purposes. I have quit French because improving my Spanish is really my top priority and will really be beneficial for me in the long-term. So, manos a la obra!

What do I need? Well, I need to get from what I guess is a low C1-ish level to a comfortable level where I can dominate the language and have little difficulty when I speak with a new customer. My customers often have little education and they often have terrible cell phone connections. They are emotional and excited. They can be from any part of the Spanish speaking world so the accents are often very new to me. All of these things creates a perfect storm of difficulty for understanding them.

This past week I had a number of conversations with some of my current Spanish speaking customers. I definitely miss some things in the conversations. This is not good. I need to improve my receptive skills for these types of conversations. I also sometimes struggle with saying things I have never said before. Talking through hypothetical situations with new vocabulary is difficult. I need to use my "study" time to get a ton of input and simply get more comfortable with the language so it becomes second nature. The more advanced I get I am noticing something of a "sixth sense" that allows me to understand things even when I don't "understand" them. It is hard to explain. Somehow I have been able to pick up on patterns or uses of the language in my subconscious brain and I am able to understand just by feel.

For the first time I am feeling like my speaking skills need some focused work. I've always felt if I really focus on the receptive skills that the output skills would naturally follow. I think that is true, but I need to help the active skills along. I am getting tongue tied too often. My Spanish flows wonderfully when I am having a one on one conversation or if I am at the weekly meetup. But, if I am speaking about a new topic or with a new customer I often get tongue tied and have to "talk around" subjects in ways that are a bit cumbersome. I have not worked actively on producing Spanish for years.

My top priorities in life do not include Spanish. Family, work and my health are much more important. I see Spanish as a sub-set of of my work right now. It is a long-term investment. It also helps me stay sane... especially when I am stressed out... so it helps with my health side of things.

I am going to try to fit Spanish into my life as best as possible so my goals for 2017 are not really set in stone. I am going to be doing quite a bit of treadmill running for the next few months and I am going to take advantage of that to watch TV in Spanish. My hope is that I can easily get through 100 hours of watching TV in Spanish while running on the treadmill. Right now it is working fine. I am just watching TV shows I have on DVD. Soon I'll probably get netflix and start in on a telenovela. Celia is on my short list as I really want to focus on the Caribbean accents, if possible.

Reading is doing wonders for my comfort in the language. I read quite a bit in Spanish. The kindle is great. My speed is improving too. Right now I'm working on the first Jack Reacher book. I'm about 27% done and that is just in the last several days. I think I can read 2 million words before the end of 2017. When possible I'm going to "read" books with audio as I think that is helping more than just reading on my kindle. 2 million words is pretty ambitious for me and it will require me to improve my reading speed. I'll really start focusing on reading during the summer. For some reason I read much more in the summer.

I have the wonderful habit of listening to the VOA news every morning on the way to work. I have probably been doing that for a year and a half or so now. It is not going to stop. I really like it and it is super easy. I will keep doing this through 2017.

I definitely need to do some active out put and grammar studying. I have the C level grammar book that I have been eyeing for quite a while. I absolutely loved the B level book and the C level book is set up the same. I'll get it done in 2017. I'll probably start in on it when I am done with treadmill running. We'll see. Maybe I'll just work through it periodically as I feel like it. I definitely need to do it. I think it will really help boost my Spanish.

I will continue to go to meetups too. That is just for fun now.

I thought about hiring an online tutor. I have decided not to. There is something appealing about studying at an advanced level and not spending any money to do so. Eventually I'd like to hire a tutor, but I'd like to press my level a bit more. A tutor might be in store for 2018. We'll see.

So, my goals for 2017 are:

1) Watch 100 one hour TV episodes in Spanish (45 minutes without commercials)
2) Read 2 million words in Spanish novels
3) Complete the C level Spanish grammar book
4) Listen to the news (or something) every day on the way to work

In terms of this past week or so, I've been doing ok. I've been watching TV while running and I've been reading Jack Reacher. I am happy I found the Reacher series. He seems like a good character that I'll be able to read for a while. It only looks like there are five books translated into Spanish.

Well, I am motivated to push my Spanish to the next level. Here comes 2017.



Sorry for quoting this whole section, but I really like what you are doing and how you are progressing.

A few questions:

How do you measure how many words you read? I normally read with my kindle and think it would be cool to say: this year I finally read x amount of words.

Has running with the TV been working for you? I think I mentioned to you before that I'm not a particularly good runner (yet). I'm a bit out of shape but have an athletic body type and can get back on track pretty soon. I've noticed that with my audiobook (that we talked about before) I can really focus when I'm doing an easy run. On a tougher run I can still focus (to get my mind off the pain) but it can be hard. Can't wait for the day when I can run 5 miles again and consider it "fun" rather than a workout. I think this is when the podcasts and audiobooks will really be helpful....I'm sure you already have that level of running. I figure that the telenovelas will help you out a ton!

In a previous log of mine I mentioned that the VOA news in the morning was sort of unappealing to me. I found myself losing focus for some reason, which I attributed to news stories that I wasn't particularly interested in. The truth is, the show is relatively short and I think there is some need for me to force myself to listen to things that I may not find 100% fun and entertaining (although I do enjoy 85% of the show). What I'm getting at here is that you just motivated me to start listening to the news again. At the very least it will serve as that ONE thing I do EVERYDAY no matter what. So thanks!


Congratulations on everything, it seems like you are progressing at a great pace. I feel like we have similar levels in Spanish so it's always cool to see your posts or look at your log to see how things are going for you. I wish you the best of luck coming into the new year.
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James29
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Re: James29's Spanish (and sometimes French) Log

Postby James29 » Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:42 pm

DaveBee wrote:
On another thread Cavesa posted links to a Reddit thread from someone who had just taken the DELE C1 exam. You might find that useful.

...
you might enjoy Conn Iggulden's books. I like his Ghengis Khan (Conquistador) series best.[/quote]

Interesting links on advanced Spanish. I've thought about devouring C level courses/materials, but I think the C level Grammar book should be sufficient for my needs. I have zero need or desire to take a test to prove my level. I simply don't need to do that. I just need to get better and better. I'm thinking the Grammar de uso series is probably the best for what I need at this level, but I'll poke around and see if there are some other options.

Before my Spanish studies I never really read many books and I don't recall reading any historical fiction. I've put the Conn Iggulden books on my list to look at more carefully. Thanks.
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Re: James29's Spanish (and sometimes French) Log

Postby James29 » Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:02 pm

NoManches wrote:
Sorry for quoting this whole section, but I really like what you are doing and how you are progressing.

A few questions:

How do you measure how many words you read? I normally read with my kindle and think it would be cool to say: this year I finally read x amount of words.

Has running with the TV been working for you? I think I mentioned to you before that I'm not a particularly good runner (yet). I'm a bit out of shape but have an athletic body type and can get back on track pretty soon. I've noticed that with my audiobook (that we talked about before) I can really focus when I'm doing an easy run. On a tougher run I can still focus (to get my mind off the pain) but it can be hard. Can't wait for the day when I can run 5 miles again and consider it "fun" rather than a workout. I think this is when the podcasts and audiobooks will really be helpful....I'm sure you already have that level of running. I figure that the telenovelas will help you out a ton!

In a previous log of mine I mentioned that the VOA news in the morning was sort of unappealing to me. I found myself losing focus for some reason, which I attributed to news stories that I wasn't particularly interested in. The truth is, the show is relatively short and I think there is some need for me to force myself to listen to things that I may not find 100% fun and entertaining (although I do enjoy 85% of the show). What I'm getting at here is that you just motivated me to start listening to the news again. At the very least it will serve as that ONE thing I do EVERYDAY no matter what. So thanks!


Congratulations on everything, it seems like you are progressing at a great pace. I feel like we have similar levels in Spanish so it's always cool to see your posts or look at your log to see how things are going for you. I wish you the best of luck coming into the new year.


I prefer counting words because it is the most objective way to track how much I have read. Counting pages or books simply has too much error. I just count the amount of words on three pages, average them and then multiply by the amount of pages in the book. If I'm reading it on my kindle I'll just grab the English book off the shelf and do the same counting. I don't know how you would count words on a kindle. There must be a way to do it with the amount of "locations" or perhaps the data is in the book itself in the kindle.

I've only been running on the treadmill for a week now. I'm going to run on the treadmill during the week and then outside on the weekends. So far I really like it. I jog super slow. I run for total time on my feet rather than miles. That's the best way for me to be in touch with my body and improve my fitness. It also makes me much faster on race day (even though I don't take race day too seriously). I was a high level college athlete and then got horribly out of shape during the whole kid thing. I started power lifting about five or six years ago and took it very seriously for a couple years. I did not like being so big so about two and a half years ago I decided to start running again. It was incredibly painful at first. I was quite a good runner when I was young, but after decades without running I was a total basket case. The first summer back into running I was only able to do 1-1.5 miles a day for about 4 or 5 days a week. It hurt bad every day. Then, I took the winter off (mistake). The next summer I was able to get up to a 4.75 mile route 4 or 5 days a week. It hurt bad every day. Then, I took the winter off (mistake). This past summer I pretty quickly got back up to the 4.75 mile route and just kept increasing my miles. I got up to doing 50 miles a week including three weeks with a 20 mile training run. I felt great the entire summer (except after the first two 20 milers). I finished this summer running a marathon. I've taken a bit of time off, but I'm back into it again seriously now on the treadmill and on weekends.

Running slow during training is the key to me for long term running success and it works great for Spanish. I just turn on a show and watch.

I like the VOA news because it is basically what I like listening to for news in the morning anyway. I'm just doing it in Spanish now. I would not do it if I did not want to get national news every day. I don't think there is anything special about it or any reason to do it if you don't like it.

One of my basic philosophies is that if I get Spanish input from different "angles" I'll improve at a rate that is faster. By getting a bit of audio-only news, some telenovelas, some one on one conversations, reading with a kindle and reading with an audio book I feel like I am exposed to many different dimensions of the language. I think it really helps remove the "holes" in vocabulary and grammar people often complain about at intermediate and higher levels.
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Re: James29's Spanish (and sometimes French) Log

Postby westminstress » Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:40 pm

Welcome back to Spanish! It's so interesting to me to read your log. You are farther along than me in the Spanish journey, but yet you still struggle with some of the same issues I do (understanding difficult speakers, explaining abstract & unexpected concepts). I think language learning is like a spiral, really. You continue to improve, and yet you continue to encounter the same problems, just at a different and more precise level. And the solution to them is also the same - read, listen, converse, study the intricacies of the language.
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Re: James29's Spanish (and sometimes French) Log

Postby James29 » Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:52 pm

westminstress wrote:Welcome back to Spanish! It's so interesting to me to read your log. You are farther along than me in the Spanish journey, but yet you still struggle with some of the same issues I do (understanding difficult speakers, explaining abstract & unexpected concepts). I think language learning is like a spiral, really. You continue to improve, and yet you continue to encounter the same problems, just at a different and more precise level. And the solution to them is also the same - read, listen, converse, study the intricacies of the language.


This is very true. I was kind of thinking about this when looking through the C level grammar book. It goes over the same topics as the B book, but just at a more advanced level. Spanish is great!
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Re: James29's Spanish and French Log

Postby Tati » Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:23 pm

James29 wrote:
Tati wrote:
I was having a look at the last pages of your log and it did surprise me a bit that you were reading translated works instead of books written originally in Spanish. May I ask you if there's a learning reason in your choices?


I only read translations because I know that I'll like the books I read. There is little chance I'm not going to want to finish a Grisham or Connelly book. If there were an author who wrote in Spanish that I knew and really liked I'd be more than happy to read books originally written in Spanish. I don't mind translations at all in terms of the Spanish. The book I just finished that was originally written in Spanish seemed just the same (likely easier) than the translations I read. I guess the only real reason I read translations is that I want to enjoy the story and I am too lazy to find an author I'd like in Spanish.



That makes a lot of sense, thanks for your reply!

If you ever want book recommendations, drop me a line. I don't read much fiction written in Spanish lately, but I may come up with a few suggestions.

I'm getting some ideas for my own learning from your log, so thanks for that too!
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Re: James29's Spanish (and sometimes French) Log

Postby James29 » Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:22 pm

I'm not really sure why I feel the need to update my log every week. I really am just using the language and doing the same things as always. The one big difference recently is that I'm watching TV in Spanish as I run on the treadmill every weekday morning. I find if I jog pretty slow and watch something interesting I can just keep going. I've been watching two one hour episodes each morning on DVD. There are no commercials on the DVDs so this amounts to 90 minutes of running and watching Spanish. I think this is a pretty good routine and I'll keep it going for a while. I don't have many shows on DVD so I'm going to have to get netflix this week.

I'm also slowly moving through the first Jack Reacher book. I like the book. Because I'm running in the mornings I am not reading. This is somewhat annoying because I am moving through the book so slowly. I read a few hours on the weekend, but only manage a few minutes here and there during the week. If I start a book I like to move through it fairly fast until I'm done. I don't like to work through a book so slowly. When I finish this I'll stop reading books until I'm done treadmill running. I'm eyeing an April marathon as a new running goal and think I'll have that be a transition point for getting back into reading books in Spanish.

I have a new phone and cannot figure out how to get the phone connected to the blue tooth in my car. This is a problem because I cannot listen to the news on my ride into work. I've got to figure something out. I tried to find a way to have my phone broadcast in FM to the car radio, but I'm not sure that is possible. Hopefully I'll find a way to just connect my phone to the blue tooth. I really like listening to the news in the morning.

I am doing the local meetups too. Nothing new there. That's the only real speaking practice I get on a regular basis.

I had a few calls from new customers in Spanish this week. One woman from Mexico was super simple to understand. She spoke English pretty well and we started the call in English. At one point I asked her if she'd prefer Spanish and she did. I was amazed at how much "better" the conversation was in Spanish. Her English was not really bad at all, but it was clear that my Spanish was better than her English and the Spanish conversation was much more effective. This was probably more due to the limiting factor in the English conversation was her vocabulary. It was more important for her to speak in a detailed way and for me to understand. If the reverse were true we might have been better off in English. It was encouraging and quite fun.

I note that I am not nearly as comfortable using usted. Some things just don't feel quite right. I find myself wondering if I say the word "usted" too often to make it clear who I am referring to. I basically always say usted with the verb. It just seems confusing to me to say the "usted" verb without adding the word "usted." Also, I notice I'm not comfortable when I am using usted and need to add lo or la or le where I'd use te speaking with tu. My mind is just so used to using the tu articles it causes problems. I do notice that this gets much better very quickly once I start using usted.

I set goals for 2017 recently. I don't think they are bad goals, but I'm wondering if I really need to try to read so much this upcoming year. I think I will probably read 2 million words, but I think I'd rather just try to read as much as is reasonable under the circumstances and just see how many words that is.

Well, that's it for now.
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Re: James29's Spanish (and sometimes French) Log

Postby James29 » Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:55 pm

I feel like I am settling into a good new routine. I bought a Netflix membership. I've been running on the treadmill for 90 minutes each weekday morning and watching two episodes of a telenovlea. On the weekend I'd like to run a bit more so today and yesterday I watched movies which were close to 2.5 hours each.

I have decided on Celia as my first telenovela to work through. I like the story, the music, the history and there is something about Cuba that has always interested me. Caribbean Spanish has always been my primary interest in terms of understanding. Unfortunately, I felt my understanding of the first couple episodes were not as good as I would have liked. Thanks to some help from the Spanish group log I was able to find some good episode summaries. I certainly did not miss anything important, but I could tell I was definitely missing some of the details. Prior to Celia I tried out Metastasis. I could understand Metastasis almost as perfectly as if it were English. I'd love to be able to understand Celia as well as I could understand Metastasis.

I watched two movies in Spanish too. One was dubbed and I had seen it before in English so it was simple to understand. The other was about a Mexican governor who pays off a TV station to run good stories about him. It wasn't a bad movie. Again, I had a bit of a hard time at the beginning of the movie making sure I was following the details. By the end (after I was used to the voices and story) I did not have any problems at all.

I'm amazed by the selection of telenovelas on Netflix. There is plenty to choose from. I'm a bit disappointed in how many movies they have in Spanish. I was hoping to be able to watch a 2+ hour movie each day on the weekends, but I don't think I'll be able to do that too long.

Because I'm on the treadmill so much nowadays I'm not getting to read much. I am only reading on the weekends. I probably read about three hours this weekend which is more than typical. I'm now 60% through the first Jack Reacher book. Good book. I wish I could put some more time into finishing it. I don't like working through a book so slowly. When I finish this I think I'll stop reading for a while and just stick with the telenovelas and movies.

I have my new phone figured out so I can again listen to the VOA news in the morning on the way to work. It now takes me 30 minutes to get to work because I'm driving 2 hours later and there is much more traffic. This means I listen to the entire news program instead of just the first 15-20 minutes.

I go to the local meetup every week which is fun. I also occasionally chat with friends or customers in Spanish.

A few weeks ago I set "goals" for 2017. I'm not sure how seriously I'll take these goals. I definitely want to work with the grammar book, but I think the TV time and books might be flexible. So far, I'm really cruising through TV time. I've already lost track. I'm probably somewhere around the equivalent of 27 60 minute TV episodes. I have a feeling I'll be getting a ton of TV in this winter on the treadmill and much less reading.
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Re: James29's Spanish (and sometimes French) Log

Postby James29 » Tue Dec 27, 2016 4:17 pm

Spanish:

End of the year matters have me quite occupied. I'm still able to get in my Spanish. Right now I'm primarily watching Celia while running on the treadmill each weekday morning. I watched two episodes a day last week. This week I'll lighten up and do just one episode each morning. In the new year I'll get back to averaging two episodes each morning. I'm going to get through the 80 episodes pretty quickly at this pace. I love Netflix!

Edit: I note that the Spanish in Celia is quite difficult to understand. I cannot think of any TV show or movie that I have felt is as difficult. I don't have any problem understanding what is going on and I now find reading the episode summaries to simply be a waste of time. So, I do not have a problem "understanding" it. The problem lies in the "chit-chat", small talk and details of the conversations. Some of the stuff is just not getting through. If I concentrate I often can see that I really do not know what actual words they are saying when they speak. I gave up worrying about this. I can easily follow the story and I figure I'll just get out of it whatever I get out of it. I am watching this telenovela for the purpose of improving my understanding of Caribbean Spanish anyway so this is why I'm doing it. I've never run on a treadmill so watching TV while running is a new thing for me. It adds a whole new level of "distraction" for me. I'm simply not going to worry about it and press on. I often think that maybe in a year or two I'd like to re-watch this telenovela so I can pick up all the details. I guess that is one of the advantages of not understanding everything.

On weekend mornings and other times I have a bit of free time I'm reading the Jack Reacher novel. I'm moving through it at a pretty slow pace at only a few hours a week. This week I should come close to finishing it. I will have a bit more time in the mornings and I need to take a work trip where I'll be on a plane for a few hours. I'd really like to finish this book. It is quite easy to read. I definitely see unknown words. They are what I would call "low frequency" words where I usually say "well, I don't really need to know that word."

I have not had too many real conversations lately. I need to get back into that.

I'm still listening to the VOA news every morning. I heard a fairly long interview today which was simple to understand. With clearly spoken Spanish from well educated people I don't have any problems at all. It is basically as simple as English for me to understand.

French:

I got the audio book of Grisham's The Litigators in French for Christmas. This is possibly my favorite Grisham book and the only one I'd consider reading again. This is tempting me to get back into French. I thumbed through some of the books I have in French and I am surprised at how well I can read the language. Maybe I'll just look at French as a regular distraction.

Over the holidays I saw an elderly relative who is a native French speaker. I tried speaking with her in French and it did not go well at all. My active skills are basically non-existent.

Maybe I'll just look at French as a regular distraction. I really don't have the time for it, but I might just work in French whenever I feel like it. I could do one or two week blocks to just get it out of my system every now and then. I need to get out of my mind that I am "quitting" French and that I am essentially a failure in learning French. I just have other priorities. When I have an interest again in French I'll make it a priority. Who knows.
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Re: James29's Spanish (and sometimes French) Log

Postby BOLIO » Wed Dec 28, 2016 9:24 pm

Still being a huge inspiration for me and others James. Keep up the fine work. I have not been active on the board but active in my studies.

As always, I will continue to follow your success!

BOLIO
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