K-dramas: Here I come!

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Evita
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Re: K-dramas: Here I come!

Postby Evita » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:45 pm

AndyMeg wrote:By the way, if you want to listen to the complete song, here it is:


This is one of my favorite Korean songs. One of the few where I know most of the lyrics by heart :D I haven't been into dramas recently but I'll check out the one you're watching, maybe I'll like it.
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Re: K-dramas: Here I come!

Postby AndyMeg » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:55 pm

Evita wrote:
AndyMeg wrote:By the way, if you want to listen to the complete song, here it is:


This is one of my favorite Korean songs. One of the few where I know most of the lyrics by heart :D I haven't been into dramas recently but I'll check out the one you're watching, maybe I'll like it.


I really like "Tomorrow With You" (내일 그대와). It is one of the reasons I'm using it to study. I enjoy the characters and the plot. I want to know what'll happen next, so I keep watching and studying. I hope you like it too. ;)
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Re: K-dramas: Here I come!

Postby AndyMeg » Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:58 pm

I'm think I'm finally settling on a learning routine.

- Glossika:

After trying many alternatives, this is the one I've been sticking to:

1) I use Glossika Level 1, Track C and listen to a sentence and try to write it from what I hear.
2) I compare what I wrote with the official korean transcription.
3) I write again the sentences, this time copying the official korean transcription.
4) I try to match the english sentence with the different parts of the korean transcription. When in doubt about something, I look for answers on the internet or in some books I have. *
5) Listen again to the C track, pause it and try to repeat the sentence by reading the official transcript.
6) Move on to the next sentence and repeat the same process.

I work like this for a pomodoro (25 uninterrupted minutes) a day. Usually early in the morning after I eat breakfast.

After I've studied two more new sentences this way, I go back to sentence one and repeat the same process again from the beginning (it may take more than one day until I reach again 2 new sentences, but it really helps with retention). My idea is to keep doing this until I reach sentence 50 and then start a new batch of 50 sentences.

* I'm not going deep into grammar right now, so if I see a particle I just signal it as "Particle" and move on. But I really want to grasp how verbs and adjectives work, so I've been consulting these books a lot: "500 Basic Korean Verbs" and "500 Basic Korean Adjectives". What I like about this books is that they are very complete and show not only the mode each ending represents (Declarative, Inquisitive, Propositive, Imperative) and the tense (Present, Past or Future), but also the formality level (Informal-Low, Informal-High, Formal-Low and Formal-High) that each ending indicates. This made me feel really curious about the actual use of the different formality levels, so I looked for more information and found this:

Level 3 Lesson 27 / Politeness Levels / 반말 and 존댓말

How 반말 Works – Casual/Informal Language in Korean

Also, I thought that I needed at least a very basic overview of how korean works, so I've been reading the "Introduction to the Korean Language" part of the book "Korean Grammar in Use: Beginning to Early Intermediate". In twelve pages it covers the following topics:

°Korean Sentence Structure
°Conjugations of Verbs and Adjectives
°Connecting Sentences
°Sentence Types
°Honorific Expressions

- After many experiments, I think I've finally settled on a way to work trough the k-drama "Tomorrow With You" (내일 그대와):

1) At morning, as soon as I wake up: Watch a (no-subbed) 20 minutes new segment.
2) At night, before going to bed: Watch again the 20 minutes from the morning, but this time with english subs. Then, watch the same segment without subs.

To my surprise, it is becoming quite a pleasant routine, so I'm happy about that :D

- I finally got a live talk on skype with a japanese/korean native speaker I've been texting with for some months now (mainly in spanish with some japanese mixed in). We talked for a long time and I asked him many questions about Korea and the language. One of the doubts I cleared was the actual pronunciation of the word I mentioned here:

AndyMeg wrote:A line of dialogue from the drama "Tomorrow With You" ("I don't know what it is, but I'm not curious to find out") reminded me of one of my favorite scenes from k-drama "Kill Me, Heal Me". The word that triggered the memory sounded like "bunme". Here is the scene from "Kill Me, Heal Me":



"I won't wear it"
"Wear it"
"I won't wear it"
"Wear it"
"I won't wear it, get rid of it"
"I won't get rid of it, wear it"
"I won't wear it, get rid of it"
"I won't get rid of it, wear it"
"I w-w-w-w-won't wear it, g-g-g-g-et rid of it"

This scene is just soooo funny! And the actors ad-libbed the rapping part! :mrgreen:


The actual word used in "Kill Me, Heal Me" (킬미, 힐미 ) wasn't "bunme" but 못매. And it is an Informal-Low way (반말) of saying "I won't wear it". Thanks to this I also realized that sometimes I can't differentiate well between the way koreans pronounce ㅁ and ㅂ.

- Thanks to all the above, I'm starting to differenciate between formality levels used in Korean. Now, when I'm watching a k-drama I try to notice the endings of verbs and adjectives to get an idea of the formality level they are using each time. Also, I'm trying to pay special attention to when and with whom they use each formality level, and I've found it is more complex that what it may actually seem. For example, yesterday I started watching a k-drama with english subs: 38 Task Force (38사기동대 ) and there is a team that go around trying to collect taxes from tax evaders. Most of the team members are about the same age, but the leader is much older. When they where on a van, one of the members talked in general to the others (including the leader) using the Informal-Low way (반말), but when he directly talked to the leader he changed to a more formal language (존댓말). In the same episode, the leader got pissed off with one of the tax evaders for talking to him in the Informal-Low way (반말) and asked for his ID (I suppose he wanted to check his age to see who was older).

- On Memrise I'm still studying the conjuctions and ocasionally reviewing the first batch of 30 nouns.
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Re: K-dramas: Here I come!

Postby AndyMeg » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:42 pm

Quick update:

- Glossika:

I think that going back to the first sentence after every two new sentences is too slow a pace, so I decided that I'll go back to the first sentence after every five new sentences.

My main focus with Glossika right now is to improve my listening and become better at matching it with their written counterpart. I also want to improve my writing (here I'm not talking about production, but just to get used to how korean is written). Another goal with my current use of Glossika is to become aware of how the korean language is structured and how phrases and sentences are formed. For now the only grammar I'll look at is that directly related to adjectives and verbs (mainly using the two books I mentioned in my previous post), and only at a "as needed" basis for getting a better understanding of Glossika's sentences. I'll try to guess the function of particles in the korean sentences based on the english version of the same sentences. At some point in the future I plan to read about the use of particles so I can contrast it with my deductions and correct any mistakes I could have made.

As a by-product of my way of working with Glossika, I may end up learning some or even many of the actual sentences, but that will not be my focus or intention for now. For now, what I do want to remember is how to write korean, the right way to form syllables and transcribe spoken language into the written form.

- With the drama "Tomorrow With You" (내일 그대와) I'm focusing on different things each time I watch the same segment:

1) The first time a watch a segment (no-subbed), I pay special attention to the sounds, the way actors move their mouths in order to produce those sounds and I try to imitate those movements to get my language production muscles acustomed to pronouncing korean. This is a focused mode.
2) The second time (with english subs) I just try to enjoy the drama. I think more on story-related terms than on language learning. This is a somehow difuse mode that sometimes allows me to make interesting connections between meaning and the actual usage of words and expressions.
3) The third and final time (no-subbed) I try to see how much I can understand and connect now that I know what they are saying. I also pay attention to the different levels of formality that characters use between them.

If at any time I get really curious about something (a word, an expression, etc.), I pause the video and look for it on the internet. Sometimes I get really interesting answers, and sometimes I can't even find the word or expression (probably because I'm not hearing it right, or maybe because it is a very informal or rare form of the language).

- I finished reading the "Introduction to the Korean Language" part of the book "Korean Grammar in Use: Beginning to Early Intermediate". It was interesting to see how the Informal-High basically uses the same endings for every kind of sentence (declarative, interrogative, imperative and propositive), and the actual meaning is mainly expressed by intonation and deduced by context.

Another thing that I found really interesting was the part of "Honorific Expressions". I think this part is more challenging than the formality levels because it seems to be more complex, so I'll come back from time to time to re-read it because I want to have it more present when watching korean TV, so I can detect how it is actually used by natives. Probably in the future I'll try to go deeper into this topic, but for now I think it's too early to start tackling that.
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Re: K-dramas: Here I come!

Postby AndyMeg » Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:18 am

I couldn't study much this week because I was really busy with other things.

There have been some changes since the last time I updated the log. And know I decided to make some more changes. But first, some things that happened these past days:

- I got bored of the way I was working with Glossika. I liked the study method for the first few days and then I got so utterly bored with it that I procrastinated a lot. I discovered that I like to use Glossika from time to time but not on a daily basis, so I'm changing my approach (I'll talk about it later in this post).

- I unexpectedly received a great book: "Using Korean: A Guide to Contemporary Usage" by MIHO CHOO and HYE-YOUNG KWAK. I skimmed through it and realized it is above my current level, but it is so interesting that I want to use it ASAP. It is divided in three big categories: 1) Style and Usage. 2) Vocabulary. 3) Grammar. This is what the book says at the beginning:

This is a guide to Korean language usage for students who have already
acquired the basics of the language. Unlike a conventional grammar, it
highlights those areas of vocabulary and grammar which cause the most
difficulty to English speakers. Clear, readable and easy to consult, it is
essential for all those who wish to take their Korean beyond the beginner’s level.

--> ideal for those who wish to extend their knowledge of Korean and
organize accumulated bits of information into a comprehensive picture
--> designed to promote the fluency and accuracy vital to effective
communication
--> focuses on the appropriateness of different language styles
--> provides excellent coverage of proverbs, idioms, and sound symbolism
--> offers up-to-date guidance on points of grammar and vocabulary


- Besides "Tomorrow With You" (내일 그대와), I started to study with another drama:
"The Liar and His Lover" (그녀는 거짓말을 너무 사랑해). I also tweaked a little the way I work with the dramas.

- I read about the Lexical Approach, and I got especially interested by this:

He makes a helpful summary of the findings from first language acquisition research which he thinks are relevant to second language acquisition:

--> Language is not learnt by learning individual sounds and structures and then combining them, but by an increasing ability to break down wholes into parts.
--> Grammar is acquired by a process of observation, hypothesis and experiment.
--> We can use whole phrases without understanding their constituent parts.
--> Acquisition is accelerated by contact with a sympathetic interlocutor with a higher level of competence in the target language.


Based on all of the above, here is my new strategy/approach:

1) Study with K-dramas:

Early Morning
- The Liar and His Lover (subbed and no-subbed)
- Tomorrow With You (no-subbed)
Night
- Tomorrow With You (subbed and no-subbed)
- The Liar and His Lover (no-subbed)

1) The first time a watch a segment (no-subbed), I pay special attention to the sounds and the way actors move their mouths in order to produce those sounds. I also pay attention to the different levels of formality that characters use between them. This is a focused mode.

2) The second time (with english subs) I just try to enjoy the drama. I think more on story-related terms than on language learning. This is a somehow diffuse mode that sometimes allows me to make interesting connections between meaning and the actual usage of words and expressions.

3) The third and final time (no-subbed) I try to see how much I can understand and connect now that I know what they are saying. I also try to imitate the mouth movements from the actors as a practice to get my language production muscles accustomed to pronouncing Korean.

2) Memrise

I decided to increase the time I use Memrise. I'll try to use it in many short bursts through the day.

3) Glossika

I'll only work with Glossika on Fridays. For one pomodoro. I'll do the following:

1) Dictation from the C-track
2) Transcribe the sentence copying the official korean version
3) Look at the english version
4) Move on to a new sentence

After every 50 new sentences I'll go back to the beginning (sentence 1) and start all over again.

4) "Using Korean: A Guide to Contemporary Usage"

Trying to cover this book in a few days could be really discouraging, but I feel so compelled to read it, that I decided the following:

Every Friday, after I've worked with Glossika, I'll read the book during one pomodoro.

5) Talk with a native

Every Saturday I'll try to get in contact with the native I've been talking to via Skype. As my korean level is so low right now, we'll probably be talking mostly in spanish with some japanese here and there (he is also a japanese native speaker), but I'll ask him any doubts I have about the korean language and culture.

6) Test myself once a month

I want to have some reference to objectively measure my progress and give me comparison material. I'm still thinking about the best way to test myself.
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Re: K-dramas: Here I come!

Postby AndyMeg » Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:33 pm

Quick update:

I've been thinking hard about the best way to test myself. Initially, I thought about using some TOPIK's mocking questions, but then I relized that I'm not studying especifically for the TOPIK and, what's even more important, I'm studying in a very different way that the path one follows when using traditional textbooks. Textbooks are sequential, going from "easy stuff" to "more difficult stuff". But the way I'm studying is, mostly, non-sequential (at least in the traditional way). My first objective with korean is being able to understand k-dramas (and that's where my current efforts are aiming at), so here is how I decided to test myself:

1) Once a month I'll watch 15 no-subbed minutes of the first episode of a random k-drama I've not seen before.
2) After watching, I'll write what I think I understood.
3) Then, I'll rewatch those 15 minutes, this time with english subs, and I will compare that with what I thought I had understood.

I think this will give me a good idea if I'm moving towards my goal or not.
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Re: K-dramas: Here I come!

Postby qeadz » Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:47 pm

I was thinking about doing a mock Topik 1 test just for fun - perhaps later in the year.

However you are right that the results would be questionable. I haven't looked at it, but I would assume the test is based on a person studying toward being able to *use* the language for living in Korea. This is not my goal (and not yours either I assume) so we'd both likely lack the vocabulary they'd even be using.

Choosing the right test is important.
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Re: K-dramas: Here I come!

Postby AndyMeg » Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:45 pm

qeadz wrote:I was thinking about doing a mock Topik 1 test just for fun - perhaps later in the year.

However you are right that the results would be questionable. I haven't looked at it, but I would assume the test is based on a person studying toward being able to *use* the language for living in Korea. This is not my goal (and not yours either I assume) so we'd both likely lack the vocabulary they'd even be using.

Choosing the right test is important.


I agree.

Here is a brief description of the language skills required for each level of the TOPIK (text taken from https://www.topikguide.com/topik-overview/):

[Beginner level]

1st Grade Use of basic commands of Korean for survival, such as greeting, purchasing, ordering, etc. Expressing and understanding oneself in simple everyday conversation by making simple sentences from 800 basic words.

2nd Grade Discussion of familiar topics employing a vocabulary of about 1,500∼2,000 words. Distinguishing correctly between formal and informal situations.

[Intermediate level]

3rd Grade Carrying out transactions with people in public spaces and maintaining social relationships. Understanding the correct usage of words and speech. Command of fundamental characteristics of Korean.

4th Grade Comprehension of news articles, general social issues and abstract topics with accuracy and fluency. Comprehension of Korean social and cultural contents relying on essential idioms and understanding of representative aspects of Korean culture.

[Advanced Level]

5th Grade High fluency in using the Korean language in professional research or work. Understanding and discussing less unfamiliar topics in politics, economics and other fields. Usage of appropriate expressions, distinguishing formal and informal, written and spoken, by context.

6th Grade Absolutely fluent in the Korean language for professional research or work, Capacity to understand and express oneself without problem, although without the full fluency of a native speaker.
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Re: K-dramas: Here I come!

Postby AndyMeg » Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:32 am

Quick update:

This week has been really busy and I didn't get much study time. Today I finally got some time to watch my "study" k-dramas. I also finished making a batch of 39 adverbs for studying with Memrise.

- While watching the k-drama "Tomorrow With You" (내일 그대와) I got curious about the "I want to..." construction, so I googled it and found this: Korean Phrases: How To Say I WANT in Korean. What I found most interesting was this part:

Note: Koreans don’t really say “I want (NOUN).” They mostly “I want (VERB)+(NOUN).” So, “I want to eat cake” (good ✓). NOT “I want cake.” (bad x)


- While skimming through the frecuency list I found the word 그대 from the k-drama "Tomorrow With You" (내일 그대와). In the list it appears as a "Poetic form" of saying "You".
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Re: K-dramas: Here I come!

Postby Sayonaroo » Sat Apr 15, 2017 2:52 am

AndyMeg wrote:Quick update:

I've been thinking hard about the best way to test myself. Initially, I thought about using some TOPIK's mocking questions, but then I relized that I'm not studying especifically for the TOPIK and, what's even more important, I'm studying in a very different way that the path one follows when using traditional textbooks. Textbooks are sequential, going from "easy stuff" to "more difficult stuff". But the way I'm studying is, mostly, non-sequential (at least in the traditional way). My first objective with korean is being able to understand k-dramas (and that's where my current efforts are aiming at), so here is how I decided to test myself:

1) Once a month I'll watch 15 no-subbed minutes of the first episode of a random k-drama I've not seen before.
2) After watching, I'll write what I think I understood.
3) Then, I'll rewatch those 15 minutes, this time with english subs, and I will compare that with what I thought I had understood.

I think this will give me a good idea if I'm moving towards my goal or not.


So I think this is a bad idea in that you could put that time towards something more constructive like comprehensive input. I could see the point in doing this if you know a decent amount of vocab and grammar (if you're at a higher level) and just have trouble catching grammar/vocab you already know (due to bad listening comprehension due to overreliance on korean subs etc etc) OR if it's a talk/variety show and you pause/rewind while looking up words /grammar that's transcribed. It seems like based on your level you'd be trying to catch/understand words/grammar that you don't know for the most part let alone catch. I think you'd be better off going through a scene (a whole ep may be too much) with a script (대본 google the drama with this and download the .hwp file then convert that to .doc using naver office. it's fairly available so you should be able to find a script for a drama you really like) until you can follow the scene (there's many ways to define "following" the scene like just being able to read it/hear it at the speed they're talking, or being able comprehend AND read it at the speed they're talking, you could try shadowing) which will probably involve a lot of pausing/rewinding at first but it will get easier. Pair that with relistening to the drama ep or scene multiple times should prove helpful. It's the closest thing to watching the drama with "korean subtitles." hmm maybe ondemandkorea has kdramas with korean subs. they started offering korean subs for newer vids.

Also I highly recommend learning from song lyrics. It's wonderful for vocab and grammar.
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