Dabbling in Deutsch

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Seneca
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Dabbling in Deutsch

Postby Seneca » Sun Oct 30, 2016 7:16 pm

German is my new main squeeze for a multitude of reasons that don't need to be gone into in depth here. My goals:

1. Be able to read non-fiction for the non-specialist (history, pop culture, etc...) and novels around the high school level. I am thinking of things like Im Westen nichts Neues (All Quiet on the Western Front) or Siddhartha along with being able to read the news in German. I am not quite a news junky, but do read the news regularly.

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2. Maintain a written pen pal connection with a native German speaker entirely in German. There seem to be tons of penpal sites out there, and it would be a cool way to practice German in a very authentic, somewhat informal, manner.

3. Understand German TV/movies with subtitles on. I figure most of the time I would be consuming such media other than by myself, I'd be with other non-German speakers.
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4. Be able to chat at survival German+1 which I'd describe as "making small talk with a German native speaker for that first 5-10 minutes on a plane while still settling in and leaving a nice impression before I zonk out to sleep the flight away."

No real timeline on these. My next opportunity to use German in person probably won't be for at least 6 months.

I finished lesson 22 of German Without Toil today. I have the audio and write out each lesson in a format akin to what is called Scriptorium on this site.


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Say I make forty-five minutes to an hour per week day of "German time" and ~thirty of that is used on German without Toil. Any suggestions for what to do with the rest of the 15-30? Hitting the sweet spot of properly balancing learning materials with authentic materials is tricky, but I think the rest should be spent with native materials in some capacity.

Some news options:

Euro News - German has short news clips with a video and transcript. The big downside is they are only in the 30 second to 2 minute long range, generally. The big upside is it seems to be at full speed. I can also get the accompanying translation in English Euro News - English and it is updated regularly!

Deutschland Radio Kultur seems to be slightly slower than native full speed, but also offers much longer audio sessions. Sometimes well over 10 minutes. The main downside is I cannot seem to always find where the audio lines up with the typed text on a given page. Sometimes it seems to start right from the top, and other times only partway down the page after random intro chit chat. There is no English translation.

Then two offerings from the Deutsch Welle site:
Top Them which offers one news article a day, most days of the week. It is generally around 2 and a half minutes long. It includes both a manuscript in German and a glossary of specialized vocab from the video translated into English, but is definitely at a somewhat slowed down speed.

Langsam Gesprochene Nachrichten (Slowly Spoken News) lives up to its title. It is generally 8+ minutes in length with a German translation of the text, but it is incredibly, incredibly slow. However, if one scrolls down there is an option for the audio "im Originaltempo als MP3" which is at normal speed. It takes the 8+ minutes down to a bit over 5 minutes, generally. No English transcript that I see.

Finally we have "easy to read" "Easy to Read" which is another site of short news with German transcript at a slow speed.

My biggest reason for wanting to use a news resource with audio is to internalize how German should sound before reading daily news quietly potentially messing up German pronunciation in my head. That said, my initial inclination would be to stick with Euro News exclusively. I am unsure what utility slower news options are for a language like German where, even when spoken quickly, I feel like the distinction between words is easy to hear even if I don't know what a given word means. Then maybe use Langsam Gesprochene Nachrichten at normal speed if I ever have extra time in a day since it is a solid five minute test of just reading to see what I can comprehend without a way to check myself (other than translating it myself).

What say you, experienced language learners?
*One lesson of German Without Toil today including writing out each lesson by hand.
*Pick 5-7 minutes worth of German news clips from Euronews to learn from.
1. Read the English version of an article.
2. Read quietly along on the German side once while playing the audio. Glance back at the English side for understanding.
3. Read out loud the second time and try to match the German audio for pronunciation and speed.

Does that seem like a good base to kick off my second phase of learning with? My first phase was sticking with GWOT for 3 weeks and a day to ensure German was part of my daily routine. I don't like to change too many variables at once. Beyond the above, I ordered a couple short and cheap grammar books I thought to read through in odd moments and on the weekend to try to supplement the above. All criticisms are welcome.
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Re: Dabbling in Deutsch

Postby zenmonkey » Sun Oct 30, 2016 7:25 pm

Sounds good to me - I mix DW news programs alltagdeutsch, news, tv, etc.. because I find that my comprehension rates vary quite a bit and if I dont get enough comprehension, for me, it isn't helping.

Try your method, stick for it for an while and assess. Only you can tell if it is really working.

Viel gluck!
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Re: Dabbling in Deutsch

Postby Seneca » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:30 pm

zenmonkey wrote:Sounds good to me - I mix DW news programs alltagdeutsch, news, tv, etc.. because I find that my comprehension rates vary quite a bit and if I dont get enough comprehension, for me, it isn't helping.

Try your method, stick for it for an while and assess. Only you can tell if it is really working.

Viel gluck!

Thanks for mentioning "alltagdeutsch" (every day life) as I had not come across that one yet. It makes me wonder what other gems I am overlooking on the DW site! Anyone know of a master list of all they have to offer, with links?

After only a day, I realized I prefer the Originaltempo Langsam Gesprochene Nachrichten over the Euro News site as the short clips of the latter got tiring fast. So looks like I will just go ahead with the 5+ minutes of normal speed German w/ transcript but no English translation for a while and see what happens.

I also think I may stop writing out each Assimil lesson and just practice reading along with the audio and comparing the translations a few extra times instead. Since I don't have hand-writing letters or anything on my to-do list, that seems like that time can be better used in a different way.
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Re: Dabbling in Deutsch

Postby zenmonkey » Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:23 pm

Seneca wrote:
zenmonkey wrote:Sounds good to me - I mix DW news programs alltagdeutsch, news, tv, etc.. because I find that my comprehension rates vary quite a bit and if I dont get enough comprehension, for me, it isn't helping.

Try your method, stick for it for an while and assess. Only you can tell if it is really working.

Viel gluck!

Thanks for mentioning "alltagdeutsch" (every day life) as I had not come across that one yet. It makes me wonder what other gems I am overlooking on the DW site! Anyone know of a master list of all they have to offer, with links?

After only a day, I realized I prefer the Originaltempo Langsam Gesprochene Nachrichten over the Euro News site as the short clips of the latter got tiring fast. So looks like I will just go ahead with the 5+ minutes of normal speed German w/ transcript but no English translation for a while and see what happens.

I also think I may stop writing out each Assimil lesson and just practice reading along with the audio and comparing the translations a few extra times instead. Since I don't have hand-writing letters or anything on my to-do list, that seems like that time can be better used in a different way.


You will find their entire current offer here:
http://www.dw.com/de/media-center/podcasts/s-100976

And don't forget Annik Rubens great podcasts...
http://www.schlaflosinmuenchen.com
http://slowgerman.com
http://kinderwahnsinn.com
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Re: Dabbling in Deutsch

Postby smallwhite » Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:25 am

While DW's German-learning materials are here:

DEUTSCH LERNEN is the main page, which showcases some but not all of their materials.

On the right, it says Niveaustufe A1, Niveaustufe B2, etc. Each of these pages is a complete list of what's on offer for that level.

Also on the right is a Kursfinder, a kind of advanced search.

* * *

There's an Android app German Listening that allows you to use some of DW's learning materials super conveniently - listen, read, look-up words DE-EN, "create flashcard" (I haven't tried this yet so I don't know what it is). It covers Top Thema, L.G. Nachrichten and 2 more podcasts.

There are other apps that do similar things, too, with DW's podcasts.
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Seneca
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Re: Dabbling in Deutsch

Postby Seneca » Sat Nov 05, 2016 11:39 am

I am through Lesson 28 of German Without Toil. I just finished a review of every lesson so far. I just went back, read the English first and then read out loud along with the audio. Later today I will go back and review every 7th lesson.

I find reviewing interesting. The course seems very well designed. When starting a new lesson and just listening first, I am definitely picking out words. After reviewing, nothing seems so hard. It is like every lesson is N+1 or N+1.5 at most. Hopefully the difficulty does not jump up too much, too fast.

I think stopping writing out the lessons by hand was a good choice, at least for me. I seem to get more out of taking extra time to review older lessons or listen to the current one.
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Seneca
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Re: Dabbling in Deutsch

Postby Seneca » Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:00 pm

One thing I really appreciate about German Without Toil are all the little gems of encouragement or wisdom sprinkled throughout.

Lesson 8: "People say that before knowing a word well, you must forget it seven times and learn it as many times again; we haven't yet reached that stage."

Lesson 17: "Please be patient if we ask you to repeat similar expressions over and over again. It is all to help the process of assimilation. On the other hand, if you meet difficulties, don't linger over them but pass on to the next lesson. These difficulties will gradually disappear as you work your way through the book."

Lesson 18: "Please remember that, for the present, all you need is to understand the German text for the lesson."

Lesson 28: "Don't hesitate to write in this book. After all, your purpose in buying it was surely not to keep it immaculate but to learn German."

Lesson 29: "These sentences may look silly, but their purpose is a serious one: we must practice using the various persons and cases. Playing scales on the piano is tiresome but necessary."

The regular reminders of why repetition is happening really draw attention to the repeated verbs and forms. I don't quite know them all by sight yet, but I get this vague "hmm, that looks familiar" tingle. Kind of neat.
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Re: Dabbling in Deutsch

Postby tastyonions » Sun Nov 06, 2016 5:23 pm

Interesting. The newer Assimil "German" is a very well-done course, in my view, but its notes don't contain much of that sort of "meta" reflection on the learning process. Glad to see that you are enjoying it so far.

Viel Glück! Und es ist sehr wichtig, sich merken, dass der Anfang das schwierigste ist.
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Seneca
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Re: Dabbling in Deutsch

Postby Seneca » Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:30 am

tastyonions wrote:Interesting. The newer Assimil "German" is a very well-done course, in my view, but its notes don't contain much of that sort of "meta" reflection on the learning process. Glad to see that you are enjoying it so far.

Viel Glück! Und es ist sehr wichtig, sich merken, dass der Anfang das schwierigste ist.

Yeah, I am. Nice quote :) But I do feel the beginner stage is one that may last a good long while!

Today's lesson (#31) was quite short and says at the end, "As this lesson is very short, you are going to try something new. After reading the first joke several times, try to say it from memory. When you succeed, try the second one. With a little practice you will master both."

This is a rather good exercise as it really makes me pay attention to details. Generally I repeat no more than one line of dialogue at a time without peaking. So this shows an avenue I need to work on as I am failing to nail more than one sentence at a time.

Somewhat fortuitously, I only just decided yesterday to move my German Without Toil study to the mornings. Thus today's lesson is already done before I head to work. This means I can try to repeat the joke verbatim from memory later without pushing into another day :D
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Seneca
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Re: Dabbling in Deutsch

Postby Seneca » Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:25 pm

Lesson 32: "May we remind you once more that your aim, for the present, is merely to get the meaning of the German text? Be satisfied with this. We shall tell you when you can begin to speak."
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