Hestia's Log (FR, JP)

[Xenops]

I got in contact with the French instructor at the main university campus, and sent her my pronunciation attempt, and this is what she said:

Hi Xenops,
It is not the French "r" that you are not pronouncing well but the pronunciation of the entire word. Your "r" is good. Sometimes you are incorrectly pronouncing/reading the word in French and this is what makes it incorrect.
Tomorrow from 9am to 3pm I am busy with a group of High School students and teaching classes. I will be done at 3pm. If you would like to come at 3pm in my office yes you are welcomed.

Well, this is confusing. All I can deduce from this is that I need to work on all my sounds, as Ingaræð and Ani have said.

Thank you everyone that has responded, and have had patience with me: I confess that I've had a hard week, and the thought of still doing poorly at pronunciation was the final needle to prick me. I'm frustrated because I've been working on pronunciation since August, and I thought I would get a handle on it by now, especially since I hear about people that conquer the pronunciation at early as in the first month.

[tomgosse]

I got in contact with the French instructor at the main university campus, and sent her my pronunciation attempt, and this is what she said:

Hi Hannah,
It is not the French "r" that you are not pronouncing well but the pronunciation of the entire word. Your "r" is good. Sometimes you are incorrectly pronouncing/reading the word in French and this is what makes it incorrect.
Tomorrow from 9am to 3pm I am busy with a group of High School students and teaching classes. I will be done at 3pm. If you would like to come at 3pm in my office yes you are welcomed.

Well, this is confusing. All I can deduce from this is that I need to work on all my sounds, as Ingaræð and Ani have said.

Thank you everyone that has responded, and have had patience with me: I confess that I've had a hard week, and the thought of still doing poorly at pronunciation was the final needle to prick me. I'm frustrated because I've been working on pronunciation since August, and I thought I would get a handle on it by now, especially since I hear about people that conquer the pronunciation at early as in the first month.

I also hear about people that conquer pronunciation early. But, I'm not sure that I have ever met one. I think that, for a variety of reasons, learning pronunciation is a life long process. I know that I have not conquered French pronunciation. Some of my problems are, having been born and raised in Boston, I do not pronounce the letter /r/ in English. We Bostonians have a non-rhotic pronunciation of English. My other problem is that I tend to pronounce cognates as if they were English. Especially hard are the vowels.

Anyway, keep working at it, and don't get discouraged.

[Ani]

Thank you everyone that has responded, and have had patience with me: I confess that I've had a hard week, and the thought of still doing poorly at pronunciation was the final needle to prick me. I'm frustrated because I've been working on pronunciation since August, and I thought I would get a handle on it by now, especially since I hear about people that conquer the pronunciation at early as in the first month.

It is a long process! Don't feel discouraged. I know it probably feels worse after a hard week (we all have those!). My best friend in high school was French and she started teaching me pronunciation when we were seniors. I don't want to admit how many years ago that was (dum da dum da dum.. 15). I must have done Pimsleur 1 about 15 times over the years that followed up until I found htlal ~4 years ago and started learning French again. So, I have had practice with a native speaker, lots of time in her house with immersion, tons of time to marinate, about 4 more years of study and I STILL get things wrong. Lots of them It gets hard on the boards because of the number of people who plan to be C1 in a year, master pronunciation in the first month so they can read everything perfectly out loud, etc. Maybe some of them do, maybe some of them exaggerate their gains, maybe they have wildly different access to resources, time, and background. Slow and steady is the way for the rest of us. Understandable is the first step, perfection is for another day It is pretty awesome you have access to a French instructor. I have never had that. I hope it goes really well for you!

[Xenops]

This is a little update, saying I might not have much of a presence here for the next month: my instructors decided to give me all of the assignments this month rather than all the months previous. Then I'll have rotations, and virtually no homework! Woot! Then I'll tackle French with abandon.

On Thursday I did visit the French instructor at the main campus (40 minutes away from my home). She started off speaking to me in French, and thankfully I was able to follow her. Also thankfully I had my Assimil book on me, and she had me read for the first couple of sentences. She stopped me at the word "croissant", and told me my R's where fine, but that with the W sound, the R's convert to something else. I was able to say it correctly, and I hope I still got it (my recording is below):

https://soundcloud.com/hestia-edwards/audio-recording-on-sunday

She also gave me ideas of where I could find native French speakers in the area. I really like the idea of iTalki, I love how you can Skype with anyone in the world, but I really prefer a tutor in person, if possible.

Well, that's all for tonight,

Xenops

[Xenops]

I wanted to clarify: the instructor spoke French initially, but not during the entire interview. The initial parts consisted of "I'm the professor", "have a seat", "do you have the dialogue with you? Read it", etc. When she coached me on the R, she switched to English.

I took a basic online quiz to see what level I was in French, and I scored an A1.

Feedback on the pronunciation is also welcome, even though it "gives me a serving of humble pie".

[Carmody]

Congratulations on taking the test and getting "scored an A1." That means we are both somewhat similar in our achievement levels and I don't have to be embarrassed about sharing what I don't know with you.

[reineke]

Your French has improved.

You mispronounced: messieurs, pardon, sûr, métro...

Droite, triste, tartines... you're overpronouncing the r's...

[Arnaud]

You mispronounced: messieurs, pardon...

The R is not pronounced at the end of messieurs (exception), and the N is not pronounced in nasal vowels (you pronounce it the english or spanish way: pardon/perdon). With time and pratice all that will slowly put in place. Record yourself again in six months reading the first lessons of Assimil and you'll notice improvements.

[MorkTheFiddle]

All Brits sound weird when they try to do American.

I would love to find a course on how to do a British accent. To be specific, an Estuary or London accent.

Youtube is your friend.

[tastyonions]

Some more detailed notes on your pronunciation of vowels for the "Assimil 3rd leçon" recording:

You pronounced "désiréz" like "dê zeu ré." "ê" is the same vowel sound as in English "bed," while "é" is narrower, more closed. Make sure not to collapse "i" in the middle of words like we often do in English. It is always pronounced the same in French.

"Deux cafés" sounded almost like "doux cafés."

"Pardon" sounded like "pa donne." Keep the "on" really round and make it nasal.

"Bien" sounded like "bian." "-ien" on the end of a word should finish with the same vowel sound as in "bain" (same for rien, lien, sien).

The "les" in "nous, les Français" and "les croissants" sounded like "la." Should be the closed "é."

"sûr" in "vous êtes sûr" needs to be rounder (it's the French "i" sound but with rounded lips).

Other than the R, the vowels are the hardest part for anglophones developing pronunciation in French. Don't despair!