Slow-cooked Korean

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leosmith
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Re: Slow-cooked Korean

Postby leosmith » Wed May 03, 2017 11:15 pm

qeadz wrote:3) ㅉ and ㅈ

I could almost list this entry as number 2, but I think maybe this applies to fewer words so it doesn't happen as frequently. I do actually struggle with this when hearing spoken Korean. Don't ask me off-hand because I don't remember, but there are words in which the ㅈ tends to have a bit more of an edge to it when I hear it (and when I say it). Those are the ones where I find myself feeling it should be a ㅉ.

Luckily ㅉ seems to be considerably less common... so when in doubt, I write a ㅈ and frequency seems to be on my side :)

4) ㅃ and ㅂ

I find I can tell these apart much easier than 3 when listening. Hence they tend to factor in fairly low on the forgetfulness scale. Similarly to 3, words with ㅃ aren't as common (at least for the vocab I know) so one can always make the safer guess.

I feel I am able to pronounce the difference between these much better than 3.

5) ㄷ, ㄸ, ㅌ

I found a few minutes a day, for a couple weeks, using this really helped me with the double-consonant sets.
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qeadz
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Re: Slow-cooked Korean

Postby qeadz » Thu May 04, 2017 8:16 pm

leosmith wrote:I found a few minutes a day, for a couple weeks, using this really helped me with the double-consonant sets.


Thanks. I'll give it a go for a while. Thus far I haven't made any significant effort to target specific phonemes (is that the applicable term here?). At some point in the past I realized I was having issues and spent some time watching and repeating after helpful native speakers teaching Korean pronunciation on Youtube. However I didn't put a huge amount of effort into it - just enough to improve my understanding of whats happening in the mouth when they're being said.

However since I have lingering issues, it's probably worth my while to do another bout of putting focus on this area.
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Re: Slow-cooked Korean

Postby qeadz » Thu May 04, 2017 10:17 pm

I haven't done a 'how my study is going' update in a while.

Things are looking a little different these days. A while ago I was starting to watch Korean dramas online - just bits during my lunch break at work. The intent was to hear a variety of spoken Korean as well as pick up vocab within context. That pretty much came to a halt. Turns out being tied to my computer was one big factor that meant it just didn't really work out. Another factor was that dramas can have too much non-speaking time in them. I'm not criticising the dramas for this - they tell their stories well - but my aim is to cram as much *listening* into that time as possible.

To this end I found radio dramas which were uploaded to LingQ. I feel I get the same, if not superior, cheesiness and cringeworthiness in the dialog as I would with a Korean TV drama. Since radio dramas are forced to rely much more on narration and characters to fill in what might just be non-verbal in a regular TV drama, I *feel* there is more dialog-per-minute :) Also I can listen on my phone while walking to work or at the gym - thats a biggie.

I listened to one episode for which I had not read any of the script beforehand.

On the first listen, aside from the awkwardly embarassing impersonations of young children in the episode, I was able to garner very little from it. I'm pretty sure I got all the main plot points. However I can't really be sure that I understood as much as I thought I understood given how little I understood :)

For example two main characters in the story were a couple of little girls, one of whom wanted to meet a gorilla from the Congo because she found out they are disappearing (I think from watching TV, but unsure). She also wanted to go to Busan. I believe the two are connected. She lied to a taxi driver that a guy (possibly her older brother?) would meet her at the station from which she would depart for Busan. However I could not quite figure out what connection Busan had - was this older guy living there? Was she going there because they had gorillas in a zoo there?

At any rate as far as I understand she gets there, meets some mean people, eventually ends up being able to phone home where there was concern around her disappearance. In the end everyone is reunited. Reunited in Busan or back home? I dont know.

I could describe the rest of the plot similarly. So many bits I just didn't catch.

Now I am reading the transcript (and re-listening) so hopefully things will make more sense this time around.

Other than the worlds most awkwardly enacted dramas, I've also been re-reading a bunch of older material in LingQ. Primarily because I was close to bumping myself to the next level in it - so rereading older material gives me opportunity to bump words up to 'known'.

With a bit of a push I surpassed 7300 'known words' and am now classed as 'Intermediate 2' which I think correlates to A2 on the CEFR scale assuming I am a reasonable judge of my abilities. 182050 words read, 200+ hours of listening, thousands of words written. 28238 'LingQs' made.

A while ago I was concerned that I might not finish the HTSK Unit 3 by July, however I've really made a push in this area. I'm now up to lesson 70 - so 5 more to go and I'll be finished with Unit 3. I've made a point of writing out some sentences using each grammar point the day after I read about it. Writing out by hand in my little notebook and then entering online for correction.

In general my writing output has increased a fair bit and I *feel* that things are going much better this way. Better than writing a lot less (or hardly at all) and just focusing on input.

However mid-year review will show whether I've made the kind of progress I hope I am making. Still no movement on the iTalki 1-on-1 front though. Stupid tablet just won't work and without it I dont have a place I can reasonably go for privacy.

The Korean-English language exchange meetups I was keen to join also can't happen. Turns out they are after hours and have limited spots available. Spots are filled and have a waiting list like a week or two in advance. I just can't be that organized around this - too many other things in life have a higher priority.

Sigh. I have to do something with regard to speaking.
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Re: Slow-cooked Korean

Postby leosmith » Fri May 05, 2017 12:42 am

qeadz wrote:The Korean-English language exchange meetups I was keen to join also can't happen. Turns out they are after hours and have limited spots available. Spots are filled and have a waiting list like a week or two in advance.

Is the huge Seoul meet-up group you're talking about? I checked it out online, but am not sure where to go if I decide to go to Seoul.
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Re: Slow-cooked Korean

Postby qeadz » Fri May 05, 2017 2:58 am

leosmith wrote:Is the huge Seoul meet-up group you're talking about? I checked it out online, but am not sure where to go if I decide to go to Seoul.


No, I'm just talking about the local one here in Vancouver. I guess they're constrained by space in the location they have it (some language learning school I *think*). Only space for 20 - 10 from each language. Seems theres usually an equal number of people in the waitlist!
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Re: Slow-cooked Korean

Postby AndyMeg » Mon May 08, 2017 6:06 pm

qeadz wrote:A while ago I was starting to watch Korean dramas online - just bits during my lunch break at work. The intent was to hear a variety of spoken Korean as well as pick up vocab within context. That pretty much came to a halt. Turns out being tied to my computer was one big factor that meant it just didn't really work out. Another factor was that dramas can have too much non-speaking time in them. I'm not criticising the dramas for this - they tell their stories well - but my aim is to cram as much *listening* into that time as possible.

To this end I found radio dramas which were uploaded to LingQ. I feel I get the same, if not superior, cheesiness and cringeworthiness in the dialog as I would with a Korean TV drama. Since radio dramas are forced to rely much more on narration and characters to fill in what might just be non-verbal in a regular TV drama, I *feel* there is more dialog-per-minute :) Also I can listen on my phone while walking to work or at the gym - thats a biggie.

Have you tried Talk Shows? The one I watch/listen-to from time to time is "Hello Counselor" (안녕하세요). Each story/guest gets about 20 to 25 minutes. You can watch it with or without english subs. If I were to use it (and I would like to in the future) I would first watch a story/guest without subs, and then rewatch it with english subs. Of course this is just a suggestion ;)
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qeadz
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Re: Slow-cooked Korean

Postby qeadz » Mon May 08, 2017 9:31 pm

AndyMeg wrote:Have you tried Talk Shows? The one I watch/listen-to from time to time is "Hello Counselor" (안녕하세요). Each story/guest gets about 20 to 25 minutes. You can watch it with or without english subs. If I were to use it (and I would like to in the future) I would first watch a story/guest without subs, and then rewatch it with english subs. Of course this is just a suggestion ;)


I have not tried talk shows yet. Thanks for the link - I'll give it a go and see how far above my level it is. I'm not quite at the level of being able to follow conversation yet so I'll probably have to spend time with subs.
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Re: Slow-cooked Korean

Postby Sayonaroo » Tue May 09, 2017 1:39 am

that show is on ondemandkorea
i haven't checked but the newer eps probably have korean subs.
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Re: Slow-cooked Korean

Postby qeadz » Fri May 12, 2017 11:41 pm

저는 최근에 너무 바빴어요. 그래서 한국어 배우기를 짧게 이리 저리 했어요. 아직도 매일 한 시간 동안 공부했어요. 이 ‘Internet forum’에 Leosmith의 토런회 우편물을 읽었는데 – ‘Word Brain’ 기사를 잘 좋아해서 중국어 배우는 찬구한테 추천하겠네요.
제 생각에 외국어 배우기에 많은 단어들을 암기하기가 실재로 중요해요. 7 월에 제 언너 배우는 과정을 검토하겠으니까 그때에 새로운 단너 배우는 방법을 사려할 거에요.
저는 주기적인 검토를 통해서 배우는 방법이 좋질 수 있을 것 같아요.

Recently I've been very busy. So I've only done short bits of learning Korean here and there. Still every day I've done an hour's worth of study. On this forum I read a post by Leosmith - the 'Word Brain' article I quite liked so I intend on recommending it to a friend learning Chinese.
In my opinion memorizing a lot of words is important for learning a foreign language. In July I intend on reviewing my progress so when that happens I'll consider a new approach for learning vocabulary.
Through periodic reviews I will be able to improve my study technique.

(Korean may not quite match the English. The English would be a little embarrassing were it to accurately match my poor attempt at posting in Korean!)

EDIT: this post was intentionally done to sound more conversational. I am practicing both slightly more 'formal' style writing as well as more 'spoken' style - the only one I never use is 반말 because informal speech is not something I hear outside of dramas and certainly not something I expect I'll use in Korea.
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Re: Slow-cooked Korean

Postby Oscard587 » Sat May 13, 2017 11:20 am

qeadz wrote:저는 최근에 너무 바빴어요. 그래서 한국어 배우기를 짧게 이리 저리 했어요. 아직도 매일 한 시간 동안 공부했어요. 이 ‘Internet forum’에 Leosmith의 토런회 우편물을 읽었는데 – ‘Word Brain’ 기사를 잘 좋아해서 중국어 배우는 찬구한테 추천하겠네요.
제 생각에 외국어 배우기에 많은 단어들을 암기하기가 실재로 중요해요. 7 월에 제 언너 배우는 과정을 검토하겠으니까 그때에 새로운 단너 배우는 방법을 사려할 거에요.
저는 주기적인 검토를 통해서 배우는 방법이 좋질 수 있을 것 같아요.



저는 최근에 너무 바빴어요. 그래도 한국어 공부를 짧게나마 이리 저리했어요. 아직도 매일 한 시간씩 공부하고 있어요. 이 ‘Internet forum’에서 Leosmith의 토론글을 읽었는데 – ‘Word Brain’ 기사가 좋아서 중국어 배우는 친구한테 추천해야겠어요.
제 생각에는 외국어를 배울때 많은 단어들을 암기하는게 중요해요. 7 월에 제 언어 배우는 과정을 검토할 예정(or 계획)인데 그때 단어 공부를 위한 새로운 접근법을 고려해볼거에요.

주기적인 검토를 통해서 공부법이 향상될수 있을 것 같아요.

Wow, this is great! :D
I've been read your log on here ;)
I corrected some sentences and words for this article. I considered that you tried to write in spoken Korean. it's my first time to do it outside of language exchange application and websites. Just I'm not sure it's possible to correct something on this site. If it's not, hope you don't mind :D
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