Werk, Obair, Rad, Kazi - the four steps to success

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Vedun
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Re: Werk, Obair, Rad, Kazi - the four steps to success

Postby Vedun » Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:18 pm

I did the test for all languages and now I've got a few things to say:
-Initially I was going to also measure time, but seeing most took 8-9 mins, this doesn't seem too useful to keep track of.
-I'm still not entirely sure how to assess the results, but it'll be some mix of words known/unknown, constructions known/unknown, overall closeness to the closest answer available, etc.
-And still don't want to spend half a day checking results, so I'll assess each one when I maintain the respective language.
-When I assigned the proficiency levels in my sidebar last summer, it was based on gut feelings alone. Now I want to change that to something a bit more objective, maybe after checking the results, maybe at the end of the month. It rather sticks out how my level in Basque is closer to that of Polish and Hungarian (0 or 1 answers correct), while that of Norwegian and Portuguese is rather closer to RMHW.
-NTMS: All unknown words and constructions in Anki and grammar sumups respectively!
-Lastly, one of the first things I noticed is how many things I was able to recall, even when last used over a year ago! Some good news to go by.
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Vedun
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Re: Werk, Obair, Rad, Kazi - the four steps to success

Postby Vedun » Sun Feb 05, 2017 8:50 pm

Not much to say, but I have commited to update my blog on a weekly basis. I have thought of some comments, but didn't write them down. NTMS: always write things to say down.
-On Friday I got distracted and recalled I have to do LL during the evening. I decided I don't have energy for that and left it for the next day. This is why I should always do LL in the morning, at least when I can.
-Starting from yesterday, I'm hoping to maintain a 10-day streak of L2 maintenance. If all goes as planned, that'd end on Monday the 13th.
-I really should also do at least some progress during that time, haven't taken part in my groups in ages. That being said, I think I'll check some other relevant. Also contribute to the groups.
-During these last two days I concluded my spoken Italian is better than my German, a bit surprising, considering I've started learning German 2009 (was it a long time ago!) and Italian in 2010 or 2011 or maybe 2012 - not that much of a difference by now, but still.
-Not using ClozeMaster when it's such a useful resource, need to find a way to bring it (back) to my routine.
-Also, as per plan, I should try out a new learning resource this next week. Maybe also take a better look at wordbrewery.
-With rather highish priority, do extra work on improving my German, Italian and Spanish (and maybe Russian) next week.
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Vedun
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Re: Werk, Obair, Rad, Kazi - the four steps to success

Postby Vedun » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:52 pm

Continuing steadily with exercises, even if somewhat behind schedule.
Tomorrow I plan to advance my German and Italian in addition to regular practice and on Saturday and Sunday as well. Here's hoping that most days from tomorrow till end of the month will include language progress...

Now I have language program, but not a goal. I'd like to learn even more languages, but 10 already on my list I should probably finish some already started first. Therefore for now I'd seek to bring my top three languages to the fluent level, perhaps in time for the gathering - fluent in three months anyone? :lol: But since I have commited to two groups, I'll look to progress on Finnish and Basque, too.
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Vedun
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Re: Werk, Obair, Rad, Kazi - the four steps to success

Postby Vedun » Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:38 pm

Didn't do any additional languages, but did maintain a streak of maintenance. Now I have left with only three langs to strengthen - a huge improvement from last month.

I blame not starting with langs in the morning and doing other interesting things for not doing any more langs. Anyway, I really need to work on my German, Italian and maybe Russian next three days.
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Vedun
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Re: Werk, Obair, Rad, Kazi - the four steps to success

Postby Vedun » Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:43 pm

A new idea for RHW exercise: try and keep my inner dialogue in the TL for at least about 30 minutes. Already did a bit and have the feeling it's going to be quite helpful.
Other than that, I still have three langs to strengthen and haven't progressed on any. Not sure if I'll manage to do anything more this week, the remaining three and a half days are going to be quite busy.
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Theodisce
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Re: Werk, Obair, Rad, Kazi - the four steps to success

Postby Theodisce » Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:50 pm

Vedun wrote:I did the test for all languages and now I've got a few things to say:
-Initially I was going to also measure time, but seeing most took 8-9 mins, this doesn't seem too useful to keep track of.
-I'm still not entirely sure how to assess the results, but it'll be some mix of words known/unknown, constructions known/unknown, overall closeness to the closest answer available, etc.
-And still don't want to spend half a day checking results, so I'll assess each one when I maintain the respective language.
-When I assigned the proficiency levels in my sidebar last summer, it was based on gut feelings alone. Now I want to change that to something a bit more objective, maybe after checking the results, maybe at the end of the month. It rather sticks out how my level in Basque is closer to that of Polish and Hungarian (0 or 1 answers correct), while that of Norwegian and Portuguese is rather closer to RMHW.
-NTMS: All unknown words and constructions in Anki and grammar sumups respectively!
-Lastly, one of the first things I noticed is how many things I was able to recall, even when last used over a year ago! Some good news to go by.


Hi! I don't know if that would interest you, but there are online test that claim to measure you level on the A1-C2 scale. Dialang is more reliable, but the testing takes longer. Anyway, I always count the minutes spent on testing my languages. 10 minutes is not terribly long, but it's 1/6 of an hour anyway.
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Vedun
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Re: Werk, Obair, Rad, Kazi - the four steps to success

Postby Vedun » Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:05 pm

Theodisce wrote:Hi! I don't know if that would interest you, but there are online test that claim to measure you level on the A1-C2 scale. Dialang is more reliable, but the testing takes longer. Anyway, I always count the minutes spent on testing my languages. 10 minutes is not terribly long, but it's 1/6 of an hour anyway.
Thanks, I'll look it up.


Apparently I forgot to update last week. Anyway, I've mostly finished the maintenance activites. Only the output and listening of EDO has left, and I'm not sure how productive they are. Will do if I find time.

Now for a montly summary.

With a second month of my new plan in, I have to face two things:
-I'm very likely to not have significantly more free time per month, and given that I want to build my language learning around my life and not the other way around, I only have so much time to deal with. As it stands right now, it was about enough for the maintenance alone.
-The border between maintaining a language and improving it fuzzy, most of the time I feel like I can't exercise my langs without advancing - as in say I am doing the output, but don't know how to say something, I have to spent a bit of time studying in order to say it.

With those two things in consideration, I'll try and cramp maintenance and advance together, doing twice as much in the same amount of time. Further I'm leaving the old dichotomy and focusing the activites on the four skills instead, plus grammar and vocab. They kind of were before as well, but now will be more organised. So far I'm thinking of 12 activities per language:
-Reading - an article of average length, with lookup of unknown words and adding them to anki.
-Listening - 10 to 15 minutes of purposeful listening to radio, trying to make out as much as possible. Eventually I might substitute it with shadowing or transcription for more advanced levels.
-Writing - 10ish minutes of output that is to be matched to my level. If I can't find anywhere else to practise, cleverbot is the way to go.
-Speaking - trying to lead my inner dialogue in a TL when doing something else, writing down words and grammar pieces I miss.
-Vocab revision on Anki - I'm surprised how much of it sticks with how little effort. 8 years ago when I was doing a modest German wordlist progres was slow and little.
-New vocab acquisition.
-Grammar drills - seperate Anki decks with front side being a word or inflection class and the back side its entire inflection.
-Grammar sumups - basically doing cheatsheets, should look up to post these on my blog.
-Progress on the selected language course - most often on duo.
-Targeted acquisition of unacquired grammar concepts.
-Clozemaster sessions - mostly complementary, I just like how it works.
-Laddering - only for languages I've become fluent in. Already doing this for 8 years.

All activites won't be for all language levels and with times weighed to match them. Order of doing is also likely to be determined (e.g. word adding activities before vocab acquisition). Vocab revision is to be daily, at least for weaker levels. Between tomorrow and 2nd of March I'll look to post the complete attack plan for the month. In the first two weeks, up to the 12th, I'll look to test again my levels and see how I fare against last month and if there's any measurable progress.
+definitely try this method sometimes this month: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/510 ... dacity.pdf


My goal is to have measurable progress each month for each language before midyear.
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Vedun
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Re: Werk, Obair, Rad, Kazi - the four steps to success

Postby Vedun » Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:47 pm

I got bogged down in doing other stuff and have done zero learning this month. :( The only good thing at the moment is that it's only the 12th and I can still do more progress than last month. But I won't get there without preparation, so...

The monthly plan of attack



Level EDO RMHW RHW
• GD
• R + VtA
• W + VtA
• Pr + VtA
• NV
• L
• (TAUG)
• GD
• R + VtA
• W + VtA
• (Pr + VtA)
• (CM + VtA)
• NV
• L
• TAUG
• GD
• R + VtA
• W + VtA
• CM + VtA
• NV
• L
• (TAUG)


More on activities:
-Reading - an article of average length, with lookup of unknown words and adding them to anki.
-Listening - 10 to 15 minutes of purposeful listening to radio, trying to make out as much as possible. Eventually I might substitute it with shadowing or transcription for more advanced levels.
-Transferring unknown vocab to Anki.
-Writing - 10ish minutes of output that is to be matched to my level. E.g. in some forum that uses that language. If I can't find anywhere else to practise, cleverbot is the way to go.
-Speaking - trying to lead my inner dialogue in a TL when doing something else, writing down words and grammar pieces I miss.
-Vocab revision on Anki - I'm surprised how much of it sticks with how little effort. 8 years ago when I was doing a modest German wordlist progres was slow and little.
-New vocab acquisition.
-Grammar drills - seperate Anki decks with front side being a word or inflection class and the back side its entire inflection.
-Grammar sumups - basically doing cheatsheets, should look up to post these on my blog.
-Progress on the selected language course - most often on duo.
-Targeted acquisition of unacquired grammar concepts.
-Clozemaster sessions - mostly complementary, I just like how it works.
-Laddering - only for languages I've become fluent in. Already doing this for 8 years.



1. Do one revision per language this month, with activities according to level as shown above. Strictly only one revision per day and it should not exceed 90 minutes. Abort everything if 90 minutes have passed and try to do everything in time next time.
2. Before that, do a test on tatoeba and compare against last month. Also try the other testing method mentioned above for one or two languages.
3. On all other days do VR for 1 to 3 languages - depending on free time.
4. On all days do S + VtA, initially for 30 mins, with increasing lengths until it spans the entire day. When don't know a word, write its translation somewhere and use that instead. When don't know some grammar, note that and simplify the expression (other TAMs -> present, plural -> singular, other cases -> nominative, etc.)
5. If I'm not sure which language to work on next, I'll use the order they're listed in my profile.
6. Laddering is only for languages I'm already fluent in.

Starting tomorrow with a test, revision and S + VtA. :)
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Vedun
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Re: Werk, Obair, Rad, Kazi - the four steps to success

Postby Vedun » Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:41 pm

Reporting after the first session. The two tests alone took me nearly two hours. I began the second test (dialang) 80 minutes in and it took me 20*. Given that I consistently took 10 minutes per tatoeba test last month, it turns out the elephant in the room is taking the unknown words from it, translating them and adding them to Anki. Although I did spend some 20-30 minutes only speaking to myself in German, I still don't know how it took me more than half an hour to translate 20ish words. More than a minute per word! Definitely have to streamline that.

Anyway, I promised that I won't overtime language studying too much, so I'm done with German for now. I have a day or two to figure out how to fit everything in an hour and half. Maybe won't use dialang anymore, I got bored halfway in, the questions were repetetive and I half-arsed a few, although it did tell me a CEFR level - I got A2.

I have a lot of hope for the inner dialogue type of exercises, already just 30 mins of German I found some holes, remembered some other things and got some feel back of what it's like to speak in German.
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Vedun
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Re: Werk, Obair, Rad, Kazi - the four steps to success

Postby Vedun » Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:55 pm

A belated and brief update:
-Changing the format yet again. Don't have the time to arrange my life around language learning and all that. Basically every day it's either Anki revision + ID in TL or 90ish minutes of the stuff two posts ago.
-The amount of Anki revision should also be limited to no more than say 30 mins, or I risk not starting it at all, due to lack of that much time to spare.
-ID in TL has been quite helpful in indentifying the holes in my vocabulary and grammar. Now the key is finding time to transfer all that to Anki.
-Still haven't gotten in the habit of doing LLing in the morning first, and I often can't or have little time to. Maybe I should set up some regular weekly program and/or alarms.
-I'm dropping off the monthly cycle. From now on every time I'll just work on the next language, no matter if the day is of much or little learning.
-I'd also like to find a quicker way to assess my level. Maybe from Tatoeba as before, but without looking up and transferring the unknown word to Anki - that takes time + I can always do it later. And besides, I have dedicated another way to fill in the gaps.
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