Slow Learning: French and Hindi

Continue or start your personal language log here, including logs for challenge participants
User avatar
Xenops
Brown Belt
Posts: 1444
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:33 pm
Location: Boston
Languages: English (N), Danish (A2), Japanese (rusty), Nansha (constructing)
On break: Japanese (approx. N4), Norwegian (A2)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=16797
x 3559
Contact:

Re: Slow Learning: French and Hindi

Postby Xenops » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:35 pm

jeffers wrote:I can search by "Audio and Subtitles" on my computer, but for some reason this doesn't exist on the WiiU app. Unfortunately, this gives you every show that has a French language track, not just films and shows originally in French. They used to have a sub-menu for countries under the International menu, but that's gone now.

In addition, Netflix has really cut the number of French films and TV shows compared to what they had available a couple years ago. Most disappointing to me is that Engrenages is no longer available.



We should all email Netflix: "Yo! Your foreign language selection for streaming is pitiful. Give us a bigger selection!"
2 x
Check out my comic at: https://atannan.com/

User avatar
tomgosse
Brown Belt
Posts: 1143
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:29 am
Location: Les Etats Unis
Languages: Anglais (langue maternelle)
Français (A1)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1185
x 2378
Contact:

Re: Slow Learning: French and Hindi

Postby tomgosse » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:39 pm

Xenops wrote:
jeffers wrote:I can search by "Audio and Subtitles" on my computer, but for some reason this doesn't exist on the WiiU app. Unfortunately, this gives you every show that has a French language track, not just films and shows originally in French. They used to have a sub-menu for countries under the International menu, but that's gone now.

In addition, Netflix has really cut the number of French films and TV shows compared to what they had available a couple years ago. Most disappointing to me is that Engrenages is no longer available.



We should all email Netflix: "Yo! Your foreign language selection for streaming is pitiful. Give us a bigger selection!"

I would like to be able to browse what they have without signing up for a "free trial" with my credit card. :evil:
4 x
Rejoignez notre groupe français ! Les Voyageurs

jeffers
Blue Belt
Posts: 848
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:12 pm
Location: UK
Languages: Speaks: English (N), Hindi (A2-B1)

Learning: The above, plus French (A2-B1), German (A1), Ancient Greek (?), Sanskrit (beginner)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=19785
x 2774
Contact:

Re: Slow Learning: French and Hindi

Postby jeffers » Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:54 pm

My return to this site, coupled with my return to "formal" study has begun well.

French
This week I opened up my Hugo French in 3 Months for the first time in almost a year, to work on week 8 which starts with the imperfect tense. I think the book is good, but I've never been sure of how to use it. For each section I read the explanations, I think though the example sentences, and then I try the exercises and end up making stupid mistakes for about half of them. So I put it down, try again the next day, and make the same mistakes again! My intention in using this book has been to gain a solid grasp of the basics of French grammar, and it clearly hasn't been working. I was wondering if the book was really for me.

So yesterday I tried something different: I began an Anki deck for Hugo. First I made a table of the imperfect endings: front = "imperfect endings", back = each subject with its ending, e.g. je -ais, tu -ais, etc. Then I entered each of the example sentences French-->English. I flicked through them a few times, then I added the accompanying exercises, which are English-->French. I've worked through them 5-6 times in the past 24 hours and I'm finding it's actually sticking! I think doing the examples in the context of reviewing the table mentally is helping it to stick.

Today I made cards for two relative pronouns que and qui (the back gives the translation + "subject" for qui and "object" for que). For each example I put whether the que or qui refers to an object or subject. For example:
Front:
Voici le permis de conduire que j'ai trouvé.
Back:
Here is the driving license (object) that I found.

When I did this chapter previously, I understood the explanation and examples, but couldn't manage to produce the right answers in the exercises. I'll review the examples several times, and tomorrow I'll put in the related exercises and see how it goes.

So I expect my pattern with Hugo to be this: each day put one section of the week's lessons into Anki. Learn the day's lesson while reviewing whatever comes up from the previous work. Hopefully I should be able to complete each week in a real week, and hopefully it will actually stick! If I manage this pace, I'll finish the text at the end of April.

Besides this I did a few short sessions with Duolingo, having to go right back to the start since most of my tree is dead. I'm on the fence about whether it's worth rebuilding the tree or just dropping it altogether. I've also watched a fair bit of French TV this week. Season 2 of Braquo on Netflix was crap but not as bad as season 1. Full of gratuitous violence in a misguided attempt to be more gritty than anything else, the plot is actually driven by the screw-ups of the cops who nevertheless are "the best" (at least that's what someone said of them in season 1). I've also watched a few episodes of Cain season 4, but these have been disappointing so far compared to the previous seasons. I'll stick with it and hope it gets better as it goes along.

Hindi
I've begun my reopening of Le Hindi sans peine by reviewing all the audio, shadowing where possible. After about lesson 10 it was getting harder to shadow, so I'll probably begin my review of the text at chapter 10, but go a bit faster until I get to where I was before (ch 24 or so). At the same time, I've been feeling the urge to reopen the Routledge Intermediate Hindi Reader. So far I'm sticking to the one book at a time rule, but I'm reviewing my old Anki vocab cards from the reader.
3 x
Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien (roughly, the perfect is the enemy of the good)

French SC Books: 0 / 5000 (0/5000 pp)
French SC Films: 0 / 9000 (0/9000 mins)

jeffers
Blue Belt
Posts: 848
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:12 pm
Location: UK
Languages: Speaks: English (N), Hindi (A2-B1)

Learning: The above, plus French (A2-B1), German (A1), Ancient Greek (?), Sanskrit (beginner)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=19785
x 2774
Contact:

Re: Slow Learning: French and Hindi

Postby jeffers » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:41 pm

I have a pretty basic question which I hope one of you can answer for me. I'm working on an exercise from Hugo French in 3 Months, page 127, and the answers to a few of the questions are the following:

La chambre, que nous avons réservée pour vous, est à côté de l'ascenseur.
La note, que vous avez préparée, est correcte.


I understand that in these two cases, the perfect forms of the verbs (réservée and préparée) are feminine because they are used with a feminine object (a rule I haven't quite come to terms with). But they also have this sentence:

La réceptionniste, à qui vous avez parlé, est bilingue.

Why is it parlé and not parlée? Does the use of the preposition à somehow cut the verb loose from the object?
0 x
Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien (roughly, the perfect is the enemy of the good)

French SC Books: 0 / 5000 (0/5000 pp)
French SC Films: 0 / 9000 (0/9000 mins)

Sizen
Green Belt
Posts: 274
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2015 5:53 am
Languages: English (N), French, Japanese, Spanish, Mandarin, Korean
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18968
x 759

Re: Slow Learning: French and Hindi

Postby Sizen » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:56 pm

jeffers wrote:La réceptionniste, à qui vous avez parlé, est bilingue.

Why is it parlé and not parlée? Does the use of the preposition à somehow cut the verb loose from the object?

I wouldn't necessarily think of it that way, but yes, more or less. The real distinction to be made here is the difference between a direct object (which takes no preposition [accusative]) and any other kind of object, such as indirect (which usually takes "à" [dative]). Only direct objects placed before the verb can cause the past participle to agree with its object. There is, however, the exception of partitive objects preceded by "de" (du miel, some honey), which are replaced by the pronoun "en" and which the verb never agrees with (except some grammarians disagree with this stance).
1 x

User avatar
outcast
Blue Belt
Posts: 585
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:41 pm
Location: Florida, USA
Languages: ~
FLUENCY
Native: ENglish, ESpañol
Advanced: -
High Basic: DEutsch (rust), FRançais (rust), ZH中文
Basic: -
~
ACQUIRING
Formally: KO한국말, ITaliano, HI हिन्दी
Dabbling: HRvatski, GW粵語
Dormant: POrtuguês
~
Plan to learn: I BETTER NOT GO HERE FOR NOW
~
x 679

Re: Slow Learning: French and Hindi

Postby outcast » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:04 pm

Yes, I think you answered your own question :)

While my French grammar rules are still a little rusty (I used to know all this stuff inside out, but I am going slowly through my voluminous French notes folder as I bring back my French online), it is almost always a direct object replaced by a pronoun (pronoun comes before before), or a direct object further described in a relative clause (where again, the pronoun comes before the verb), that requires a gender and number agreement in the past participle. Which I just noticed is about the same thing Sizen said above.

Unrelated to this question, I see that in your OP you were interviewed in India and the article mentions Landour School in Mussoorie. I intend to go to India next year for 3-4 months for an intensive Hindi immersion, I plan to study basic Hindi in the USA during the last 4 months of this year so I reach India at an intermediate level where I can take full advantage of the environment. I have looked at this school and also at other schools in Delhadun. Did you do your stay at Landour? If so, and if you also know about Delhadun (I'm assuming you do since Mussoorie is basically a suburb or exurb), would you mind if I PM you with some questions? I would really appreciate it. :)
1 x
"I can speak wonderfully and clearly in zero languages, and can also fluently embarrass myself in half a dozen others."

The End of Language learning: 10 / 10000

jeffers
Blue Belt
Posts: 848
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:12 pm
Location: UK
Languages: Speaks: English (N), Hindi (A2-B1)

Learning: The above, plus French (A2-B1), German (A1), Ancient Greek (?), Sanskrit (beginner)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=19785
x 2774
Contact:

Re: Slow Learning: French and Hindi

Postby jeffers » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:55 pm

Thank you both for your help. It kind of makes sense, but it will just take some time to take that rule on board properly.


@Outcast, yes, I stayed in Landour while I was studying at the Landour Language School in 2015. I can heartily recommend the school but the quality of teaching varies a lot from tutor to tutor. Like any tutoring, one thing to do is figure out what a tutor is good at and get that tutor to focus on working on that skill. Generally speaking, if you have 4 lessons in a day, you will have 4 different tutors (which in my opinion is a good thing).

When you ask about Delhadun, I assume you mean Dehradun. I don't know of any language schools there, but since it became the capital of Uttarkhand it has grown immensely. However, just for the sheer beauty of the place, I would recommend Landour. The problem with Dehradun, Landour and Mussoorie is that almost everyone speaks English, so you'd have to work hard to keep yourself immersed. On the other hand, many of the shopkeepers, like Anil who runs a teashop near St Paul's church, are happy to chat with language students practicing. The other method is to befriend the students from Korea (there always seem to be a few); since their English is shaky Hindi becomes your common way to communicate.

My general advice would be to start at a language school for maybe 3-4 weeks, then go and stay another 3-4 weeks in some town where there aren't many tourists and most locals don't know English. After that you could return to the language school for a bit more work, or continue the pure immersion if you feel it's working well. Anyway, feel free to pm me with any questions.
0 x
Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien (roughly, the perfect is the enemy of the good)

French SC Books: 0 / 5000 (0/5000 pp)
French SC Films: 0 / 9000 (0/9000 mins)

User avatar
outcast
Blue Belt
Posts: 585
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:41 pm
Location: Florida, USA
Languages: ~
FLUENCY
Native: ENglish, ESpañol
Advanced: -
High Basic: DEutsch (rust), FRançais (rust), ZH中文
Basic: -
~
ACQUIRING
Formally: KO한국말, ITaliano, HI हिन्दी
Dabbling: HRvatski, GW粵語
Dormant: POrtuguês
~
Plan to learn: I BETTER NOT GO HERE FOR NOW
~
x 679

Re: Slow Learning: French and Hindi

Postby outcast » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:19 pm

jeffers wrote:Thank you both for your help. It kind of makes sense, but it will just take some time to take that rule on board properly.


@Outcast, yes, I stayed in Landour while I was studying at the Landour Language School in 2015. I can heartily recommend the school but the quality of teaching varies a lot from tutor to tutor. Like any tutoring, one thing to do is figure out what a tutor is good at and get that tutor to focus on working on that skill. Generally speaking, if you have 4 lessons in a day, you will have 4 different tutors (which in my opinion is a good thing).

When you ask about Delhadun, I assume you mean Dehradun. I don't know of any language schools there, but since it became the capital of Uttarkhand it has grown immensely. However, just for the sheer beauty of the place, I would recommend Landour. The problem with Dehradun, Landour and Mussoorie is that almost everyone speaks English, so you'd have to work hard to keep yourself immersed. On the other hand, many of the shopkeepers, like Anil who runs a teashop near St Paul's church, are happy to chat with language students practicing. The other method is to befriend the students from Korea (there always seem to be a few); since their English is shaky Hindi becomes your common way to communicate.

My general advice would be to start at a language school for maybe 3-4 weeks, then go and stay another 3-4 weeks in some town where there aren't many tourists and most locals don't know English. After that you could return to the language school for a bit more work, or continue the pure immersion if you feel it's working well. Anyway, feel free to pm me with any questions.


Yes, sorry for the misspell.

Thank a lot, I will send you a message when I know exactly what I want to ask, since you gave me something to think about when it comes to moving to another town instead of staying always in the area of the school I eventually pick out.

And about the idea of befriending the Koreans, the irony of this idea does not escape me at all. :P
0 x
"I can speak wonderfully and clearly in zero languages, and can also fluently embarrass myself in half a dozen others."

The End of Language learning: 10 / 10000

jeffers
Blue Belt
Posts: 848
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:12 pm
Location: UK
Languages: Speaks: English (N), Hindi (A2-B1)

Learning: The above, plus French (A2-B1), German (A1), Ancient Greek (?), Sanskrit (beginner)
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=19785
x 2774
Contact:

Re: Slow Learning: French and Hindi

Postby jeffers » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:31 pm

outcast wrote:And about the idea of befriending the Koreans, the irony of this idea does not escape me at all. :P


Ha! I noticed that after I made my post. Still, they won't switch from Hindi to Korean if you don't. :)
0 x
Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien (roughly, the perfect is the enemy of the good)

French SC Books: 0 / 5000 (0/5000 pp)
French SC Films: 0 / 9000 (0/9000 mins)

Sizen
Green Belt
Posts: 274
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2015 5:53 am
Languages: English (N), French, Japanese, Spanish, Mandarin, Korean
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... 15&t=18968
x 759

Re: Slow Learning: French and Hindi

Postby Sizen » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:53 pm

jeffers wrote:Thank you both for your help. It kind of makes sense, but it will just take some time to take that rule on board properly.

It's not a huge deal. In spoken language, there are only a few verbs where this rule actual makes a change in the pronunciation of a word (prendre, for example), so it's not really a life or death kind of problem. Besides, I hear natives screw this up alarmingly often...
1 x


Return to “Language logs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests