NoManches - Spanish: B2-->C1 Log

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Re: Spanish: B2-->C1 Log

Postby lingua » Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:55 pm

Nomanches, I think at a certain point you have to accept you will have good and bad days with your comprehension. I know several people who have lived in the US for a long time (ten or more years) and primarily speak English. Regardless of their native language they struggle with English when they're tired or stressed.

I think you're doing the right thing in taking classes and doing a lot of reading and listening. My Italian is at a similar level as your Spanish and I struggle in the same way. When I watch Masterchef Italia I understand virtually everything the judges say when they are speaking to the contestants in a more formal mode (when giving instructions for the challenges or doing the formal judging). But once they start critiquing the dishes or the contestants are speaking it's a lot more work because they use slang, they start and stop their sentences and sometimes mumble. After watching several seasons in a short amount of time I have noticed in the last week or so that my ears are more attuned to the contestants and I'm understanding more of what they say.

I'm sure you will see improvement if you keep doing what you're doing but it will be a slow process. You are lucky that you have many Spanish speakers available to you.
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Re: Spanish: B2-->C1 Log

Postby MamaPata » Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:11 pm

I have no advice or helpful comments, but you are absolutely not alone! My hearing is not great, and as a result, I have real difficulties when there is a lot of background noise. Like you, I very much guess based on context in English, but I don't have the skills for that in Russian. I'll look forward to seeing how you progress!
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Re: Spanish: B2-->C1 Log

Postby Systematiker » Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:14 pm

I remember being in that situation in German. My totally unsupported and anecdotal opinion is that the sort of context-completion that you do in a noisy situation is its own skill that gets trained. For me, I got better with background noise around me by being in more situations like that (of course, I was in the language 10-15 hours a day, so I can't really say whether it was a function of that or of improvement elsewhere).

As for getting tired and resting your brain - that depends on how important the content is to you. You work up almost a certain endurance in another language, so hitting those long stretches is like doing endurance training.
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Re: Spanish: B2-->C1 Log

Postby NoManches » Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:18 pm

Systematiker wrote:I remember being in that situation in German. My totally unsupported and anecdotal opinion is that the sort of context-completion that you do in a noisy situation is its own skill that gets trained. For me, I got better with background noise around me by being in more situations like that (of course, I was in the language 10-15 hours a day, so I can't really say whether it was a function of that or of improvement elsewhere).

As for getting tired and resting your brain - that depends on how important the content is to you. You work up almost a certain endurance in another language, so hitting those long stretches is like doing endurance training.


I was just watching a telenovela without headphones when I thought about what you wrote.

I am used to watching television in my L2 with headphones, but in my L1 I almost never do it. As a matter of fact, when I watch a show in my L2 it is almost ALWAYS with headphones on. If I put a show on TV (no headphones) it becomes really tough to follow for various reasons. However, this problem doesn't exist in English (my native language). I can put a TV show on and even with background noise and some distractions, I can basically watch the show with no problems. In Spanish however, it becomes a HUGE problem.

I think you are right when you say that this is a skill that must be trained. Something else I am thinking is that if my listening is only at a 90% for a TV show while using headphones, it will decrease once those headphones are taken off.

Since most (but not all) of my language practice is done in a rather quiet setting, it only makes sense that once there are distractions and background noise that my comprehension will suffer.
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Re: Spanish: B2-->C1 Log

Postby NoManches » Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:44 pm

I will keep my Sunday update short:

I just started watching a show today called: La Querida del Centauro

So far I like it, and think I will watch all 51 episodes of the first season. My goal is to finish the show before the end of the year, which is very possible if I make it a priority. One thing I might do for this show is take a few minutes after each show to summarize what I saw. I think this will be a good way of using new vocabulary that I learn from each episode, along with forcing myself to pay attention (since improving my listening comprehension is my main goal and I tend to "zone out" quite often).

My reading has slacked off this week but I should be able to log in a few hundred pages during the upcoming Thanksgiving break that we have here in the United States.
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Re: Spanish: B2-->C1 Log

Postby NoManches » Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:16 am

I love reading over old threads. Often times I find things that I missed the first time around. Rule #3 from this old post on HTLAL definitely applies to me:

http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/fo ... ?TID=35562


I've reached a point with one of my novelas (I've watched around 100 episodes) where I'm starting to reach a point of "diminishing returns". I just started a new novela and I almost (not quite, but almost) feel like I'm starting from scratch. I had an "aha moment" today when I realized that instead of sticking with one novela for 500 episodes I am better off adding new ones to the mix so I constantly have to start from scratch and have to get used to new accents, slang, voices, etc. Actually, this concept isn't anything new, it's something that has been mentioned many times around here. There was actually a very, very, good post a while back talking about this but I can't seem to find it. If I come across it I'll link it here for my (and your) future reference.

I'll be doing some travelling for Thanksgiving week so my language studies might not get as much attention as I'd like to give them. If I can listen to the news in Spanish and read a few news articles every day I'll be happy.

Have a good week everyone!


**edit** I found the post I was talking about. Cavesa posted it about a month ago. I will quote it all here, it is some excellent advice:

Cavesa wrote:Nuncapense: it is extremely normal. After all, it happens in our native languages as well, to some extent.

Emk's experience is very interesting and the question NoManches asks extremely good.
From my experience: more exposure. Realistic expectations. Patience.

I wish I could draw here, to illustrate my idea.

I usually start my first tv series. I suck at the beginning. Than I improve and improve (the learning curve or speed of the improvement is not subject of this thread, so I'll leave it). I am really good at the end of the series, comfortable with quite everyone speaking there. Near-complete comprehension after just a few seasons, that feels awesome and gives me a bit too much optimism.

Than I start a different tv series. And at first, it almost looks as if I lost part of my skills again. Yes, it is much better and I get over the initial shock phase faster now than before. And I improve and improve.

Third series: again the same phenomenon, but to a much smaller extent than the last time. Of course, these "drops" can be smaller or bigger, depending on the difficulty of the tv series chosen. However, I think this phenomenon appears every time you start a new series or a movie, until certain level. You can never be sure it won't ever happen again, should you encounter a particularily different material. But these "drops" will definitely become mild or even unnoticeable, given enough time.

And I think this is as well one of the arguments for using tv series. Movies are short, you experience the "drop" too often and spend half your listening time getting used to new voices. A tv series is longer, therefore you can use the advantage of getting used to the voices in a tiny fraction of the total time, and use the rest for actually improving your skills further. Radio is the extreme. It is so hard for less advanced learners, because you spend nearly all the time getting used to new speakers and subjects.

Of course there will always be some people you'll find harder to understand. Old, silent speaking, sobbing people are extremely hard even in my native language. Crying people. Little children. People with speech impediments or various types of dysphasia. People with very high voice or very low voice (this is as well a matter of the health of your middle ears, actually. And the original anatomy too.) But as you progress, there will be fewer and fewer of these.
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Re: Spanish: B2-->C1 Log

Postby westminstress » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:26 pm

Nothing much to say except to add to general chorus - background noise/distractions/poor audio really affects my listening comprehension too. It's interesting to know that it happens to everybody!
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Re: Spanish: B2-->C1 Log

Postby NoManches » Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:15 am

I was hoping to do a lot of reading over my little Thanksgiving break, but that never happened. As a matter of fact, in the last 5 days I logged in about 1 hour of reading, about 30 minutes of vocabulary study with anki, and listened to some Spanish music while on the road. This is by far the least amount of contact I have had with the Spanish language in a few years. In the past, if I went a day or two without Spanish it seemed like I would be very rusty when I started to use the language again. Although I still feel that way, I feel like I am able to get back on track even quicker nowadays, even after going about 5 days without any practice.

Here are some observations and thoughts:

1. I really don't like listening to the news in Spanish. I love to read the news in Spanish, but listening to it is very boring for me. Instead of listening to the news every morning, I think I'll just listen to something that I find interesting. I'm really into "desarrollo personal" podcasts....so that's what I'll listen to.

2. I REALLY love Vice News in Spanish. I am subscribed to the Colombian and Mexican pages and can read these articles for days. Some of the articles are translated from the English site but many of them are written in Spanish by reporters from varios Latin American countries.

3. I have about 2,200 pages left to finish the reading portion of my super challenge. While that seems like a lot of reading, it only breaks down to about 75 pages per day. I probably don't have the time to do it...but I think trying to finish this challenge by the end of the year will benefit me tremendously. This morning I decided to wake up 30 minutes earlier than normal in order to read in Spanish. I will continue to do this as long as it doesn't require me waking myself up early and missing out on some good sleep.

4. I decided today that I should start running again. I'm not a good runner but I like the idea of staying healthy and giving myself an excuse to listen to a podcast or audio book while I work out. Today I started to listen to "El Conde de Monte Cristo". I understood most of it but I did catch myself zoning out a few times here and there. As much as I want to re-listen to the first 30 minutes (the part I listened to today), I think I'll just listen to the entire audio book but will try not to zone out as much :lol: . I'm also thinking about finding a very easy book to listen to, maybe a book I've already read in English.

That's about all I have for now. Listening continues to be my priority, although reading to improve vocabulary (and for the pure enjoyment of reading) is very important as well. I will try to squeeze in some more telenovelas this week, but the majority of my listening practice will revolve around podcasts, conversation, classes in Spanish, and podcasts/audio books when I run.
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Re: Spanish: B2-->C1 Log

Postby MamaPata » Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:11 am

That all sounds really positive! Good luck with the reading! I've never been able to listen to podcasts or audiobooks when running (but I also have this problem with audio generally) but sounds like it will work really well for you. I'm also about to go and check out Vice News so thanks! :)
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Re: Spanish: B2-->C1 Log

Postby NoManches » Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:37 am

MamaPata wrote:That all sounds really positive! Good luck with the reading! I've never been able to listen to podcasts or audiobooks when running (but I also have this problem with audio generally) but sounds like it will work really well for you. I'm also about to go and check out Vice News so thanks! :)



I hope you like it. It is a very popular news source with the younger crowd and i find their articles to be very Interesting. according to their site:

With dozens of new, original articles and videos every day, VICE delivers everything you want to know that the mainstream media is too afraid to tell you.

I started to read this but will finish it tomorrow morning when I am not so tired:

http://www.vice.com/es_mx/read/esto-es- ... inoamerica


Let me know how you like it! Some of the content is for adults and stuff you won't find on the cover of the LA Times....but sometimes that is the content that keeps us reading in our L2 :D
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