Still learning French, and now starting Russian

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Ingaræð
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Re: Still learning French, and now starting Russian

Postby Ingaræð » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:52 pm

Fortheo wrote:One last thing: I need some comedy in my life. If anyone knows and funny french movies, books, shows, whatever, please suggest them. Thanks :)

Oooh, I would also love some recommendations for French comedy! Here's a few off the top of my head: Delicatessen, which is quite a black comedy; Les Visiteurs (with 2 sequels) - just thinking about Christian Clavier's delivery of "Okay!" makes me :D ; Kaboul Kitchen, a TV show that I have, but haven't watched yet (I think sillygoose has reviewed it in his log?); OSS 117: Le Caire, nid d'espions (with sequel), which is kind of a parody of the original novels; and finally Les Bronzés (with 2 sequels), which apparently is a huge cultural thing in France, and everyone can quote it. When I told a French co-worker that I was going to be studying French at uni, she insisted I watch it and lent me the DVD the next day. :lol: The dialog is very quick and clever though, so I'm saving rewatching it until I get my French level up.

Re: anxiety, I've learnt lately that the brain is a kind of neurological muscle - the more you have an anxiety response, the easier and stronger it becomes, so it ends up being the dominant/automatic response. Two things that I have an instant, automatic 'calming' reaction to are the colour green (shades that you get with trees etc.) and a specific crickets 'noise' (from a childhood holiday abroad), so I've recently added green furnishings to my living space and have the crickets as background noise as much as possible. Despite the last week being particularly stressful, I can definitely see an improvement from this 'forced calming'.
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DaveBee
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Re: Still learning French, and now starting Russian

Postby DaveBee » Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:31 pm

Fortheo wrote:One last thing: I need some comedy in my life. If anyone knows and funny french movies, books, shows, whatever, please suggest them. Thanks :)
Wikipedia has a list of french films that did well at the box office there. I've been working thru that.

Of the ones I've watched, I enjoyed:
Fanfan la tulipe (2003). Swashbuckler that's quite fun.
La Cuisine au beurre. Presumed dead ex-husband returns from the war.
Le Chomeur de Clochemerle (I noticed a Clochemerle book at the library the other day, but I've not read it yet)
Le Gendarme de Saint Tropez
Le Corniaud

EDIT
I also very much enjoyed the radio adaption of Grand Hotel Babylon
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Re: Still learning French, and now starting Russian

Postby MamaPata » Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:38 pm

I second Delicatessen! I also really enjoyed 8 Femmes and Un Peu, Beacoup, Aveuglement

It sounds like you're doing an amazing job, in spite of everything, and you should be very proud of yourself.
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Re: Still learning French, and now starting Russian

Postby DaveBee » Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:51 pm

MamaPata wrote:I second Delicatessen! I also really enjoyed 8 Femmes and Un Peu, Beacoup, Aveuglement

It sounds like you're doing an amazing job, in spite of everything, and you should be very proud of yourself.
I second "Un Peu, Beaucoup, Aveuglement"!
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Re: Still learning French, and now starting Russian

Postby Ani » Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:10 am

Fortheo wrote: Out of curiosity, do you read silently or out loud?


I read silently, although I sub-vocalize when it gets difficult (just like I would in English). I "hear" the words in my head though about 50-70% of the time now. Used to be 100% that I'd need to hear in my head but it is dropping off over the last couple months naturally.

I think it is super normal to struggle with the first few chapters of the book while you get used to the author's style. Again I have the same phenomenon in English. The first few chapters take almost twice as long as the last chapters because you need to read so closely to build.. like a new "story matrix" in your head. Double difficulty in L2 if you need to stop more often to look up vocabulary since there is no context yet to fit words into.

For some comedy, I haven't watched them yet but I was looking at Au Service de la France and Les beaux malaises (Which is Candian -- in case you decide to move to Quebec!). Both on netflix. Also there is always Kaamelott. There are some segments that have subtitles added if you look on YT.
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Re: Still learning French, and now starting Russian

Postby Fortheo » Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:07 pm

Ani wrote:
Fortheo wrote: Out of curiosity, do you read silently or out loud?


I read silently, although I sub-vocalize when it gets difficult (just like I would in English). I "hear" the words in my head though about 50-70% of the time now. Used to be 100% that I'd need to hear in my head but it is dropping off over the last couple months naturally.

I think it is super normal to struggle with the first few chapters of the book while you get used to the author's style. Again I have the same phenomenon in English. The first few chapters take almost twice as long as the last chapters because you need to read so closely to build.. like a new "story matrix" in your head. Double difficulty in L2 if you need to stop more often to look up vocabulary since there is no context yet to fit words into.

For some comedy, I haven't watched them yet but I was looking at Au Service de la France and Les beaux malaises (Which is Candian -- in case you decide to move to Quebec!). Both on netflix. Also there is always Kaamelott. There are some segments that have subtitles added if you look on YT.



Ah, that's probably why you can read so quickly! If I read silently, I'd be able to read a little quicker, but I'm very paranoid about my pronunciation, so I try to read out loud as often as possible. One more question, when you read it silently in your head, do you read it with the pronunciation of the spoken word, or with the pronunciation of how it's written? I mean do you omit the "ne" negations and barely touch the smaller pronouns like the french do when they actually speak, or do you read it as it's written? I'm always unsure of whether or not I should read it exactly how it's written, or if I should read it as if I would say it to a friend. Typically, with audio books, the narrator will read descriptive phrases and exposition exactly as it's written, but then read the dialogues as if it was the spoken language (omitting the negative "ne" etc etc), so I've been doing that, but I always wonder if I should just read/pronounce everything as if I was speaking it to a friend.


Oh, and have you tried Kaamelott? it looks really funny! I think I remember Cavesa saying that it was a really good test to see where a learner's listening abilities were at. That show is actually a perfect example of the difference between the spoken language and the written language. If they pronounced all of their dialogue exactly how it was written, then it would sound far different than what they actually say in the show!


And thank you everyone for the comedy recommendations :) I've started to collect them and I'll hopefully be able to start watching them soon.
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Re: Still learning French, and now starting Russian

Postby Ani » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:03 am

Fortheo wrote:Ah, that's probably why you can read so quickly! If I read silently, I'd be able to read a little quicker, but I'm very paranoid about my pronunciation, so I try to read out loud as often as possible. One more question, when you read it silently in your head, do you read it with the pronunciation of the spoken word, or with the pronunciation of how it's written? I mean do you omit the "ne" negations and barely touch the smaller pronouns like the french do when they actually speak, or do you read it as it's written? I'm always unsure of whether or not I should read it exactly how it's written, or if I should read it as if I would say it to a friend. Typically, with audio books, the narrator will read descriptive phrases and exposition exactly as it's written, but then read the dialogues as if it was the spoken language (omitting the negative "ne" etc etc), so I've been doing that, but I always wonder if I should just read/pronounce everything as if I was speaking it to a friend.


Oh, and have you tried Kaamelott? it looks really funny! I think I remember Cavesa saying that it was a really good test to see where a learner's listening abilities were at. That show is actually a perfect example of the difference between the spoken language and the written language. If they pronounced all of their dialogue exactly how it was written, then it would sound far different than what they actually say in the show!



Starting with the easier question, yes I love Kaamelott. I started watching it early last year when I could barely understand it. Now I understand most but I do still miss some bits.

So with reading. Hmm.. No I don't read like I speak. I don't read with the right prosedy because I just hear the words as I see them. I do try to "listen" to the written words in my head with the right sounds, and known expressions or constructions come out easily with the right rhythm. I notice when I come across a word I can't properly pronounce. My biggest issues with pronunciation are not with thinking about how things should sound but all with making my lips move properly (lazy English speaking lips :) ) so I definitely don't work on that when I read. I work on that with audio drills.

I don't systematically omit "ne". It is easier to drop it when using a lower register, I think, than trying to remember to add it. My impression also is that it gets omitted in quick expressions but not systematically in adult casual conversation. I could be wrong but I think I hear it used more often than not. It's a very quick sound of course.
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Re: Still learning French, and now starting Russian

Postby Arnaud » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:51 am

Ani wrote:I don't systematically omit "ne"... I could be wrong but I think I hear it used more often than not. It's a very quick sound of course.
You're right, a lot people pronounce it very quickly/lightly and it's hardly noticeable, especially for people who start to learn french and read everywhere that you can omit it completly in colloquial french (that's true). If you don't try to hear it, you won't hear it as it's really reduced to almost nothing, but that "nothing" is still very noticeable for a native or trained ear.
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Re: Still learning French, and now starting Russian

Postby Fortheo » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:09 am

Arnaud wrote:
Ani wrote:I don't systematically omit "ne"... I could be wrong but I think I hear it used more often than not. It's a very quick sound of course.
You're right, a lot people pronounce it very quickly/lightly and it's hardly noticeable, especially for people who start to learn french and read everywhere that you can omit it completly in colloquial french (that's true). If you don't try to hear it, you won't hear it as it's really reduced to almost nothing, but that "nothing" is still very noticeable for a native or trained ear.


I almost never hear it in phrases with avoir in particular, for example: "je n'ai rien dit" I typically hear like, "J'ai rien dit", but I almost always see it written with the "ne", unless it's some type of informal writing like song lyrics or on blogs or whatever. Also, my listening isn't close to native level yet, so that is a part of the issue too. Oh well, it will get there.
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Re: Still learning French, and now starting Russian

Postby Fortheo » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:53 am

Russian update:

I drag my feet with Michel Thomas. Alot. It's a 16 hour course, but I've been doing it for four months now, and that's just too long. I do only study a little each day, and I review each lesson three times, and I need to pause to think things out, which effectively turns it into a 48 hour course or more, and at 30 minutes a day that makes my slow results a bit more understandable (not to mention I bounced around with duolingo and memrize decks as well, which slowed me down even more), but it's just too slow. Not only that, but despite the usefulness of the course, I'm just losing motivation with it and can only do a lesson or two a day lately before I want to do something else. I know myself, so I know I won't be able to force myself to pick up the pace and fly through the final discs, so instead I'll just accept my turtle pace of Michel Thomas and put the majority of my focus on Assimil for now, which is actually a good thing because Assimil gives me a lot more context for the grammar I've been learning in Michel Thomas.

I originally started with the 2011 version of Assimil (did the first five lessons), but then I realized that I like the 1973 version of assimil a lot better, so I'll stick with that. I'm on lesson 6, and I'll keep going with 2-3 lessons a week for now.

My original goal for Russian this year was to finish Michel Thomas (foundation, advanced, and vocab builder), and finish Hugo's Russian in three months, while also having a good chunk of Assimil done as well. I can't do two grammar courses at once, so Hugos will STILL have to wait till I finish dragging my feet through Michel Thomas, but even if I don't start Hugo's for another three months, I'd still be on schedule to meet my undemanding goals for the year.

I constantly need to remind myself that my goals for Russian this year were really low, so I shouldn't stress about my plodding pace. I could bump up to studying Russian for an hour a day instead of thirty minutes, but time isn't the issue— finding the mental energy is.

I'll just continue to stay on track.
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