2016 Language Learning Log - Indonesian, maybe a little Russian

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Blue
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Re: 2016 Language Learning Log - Indonesian, maybe a little Russian

Postby Blue » Sun May 01, 2016 12:08 am

Thanks, takretak! Tremendously useful post. I live 16,000km from Indonesia, have never met an Indonesian in person, and I'm an avid reader in any language, so I'm going to continue reading fiction and non-fiction books. Reading will certainly be my main interaction with the language long-term, so I definitely want to have well-developed skills in that area. In my last post I lamented the lack of Indonesian books on the Play Store, but I realized the other day I was completely wrong. There's actually a good selection on there, and they seem to be priced at Indonesian levels ($1-$3 per book). I don't know how I missed that before. I bought a bunch of books I'm looking forward to reading.

Even though the formal, written language is important to me, I do need to step up my study of conversational speech. My main way of doing that so far is with language exchange partners, but you gave me some good ideas. Now that its spring, I'll be hiking and running a lot. Ripping movie audio to listen to is something I think I'll do. I'll have plenty of time to listen on the trails. I recently signed up on twitter purely to follow some Indonesian accounts, but Instagram never occurred to me. I'll check that out too. I was watching Indo-dubbed anime, but I'm sick of it. Anime has no appeal to me, so I'll check out your recommendations. Any series in particular you think is good quality viewing? I'll also hunt down a copy of CJI. I'll definitely be referring back to your post. Thanks again! Good luck with Turkish and I hope to see you around the forums.
Last edited by Blue on Sun May 01, 2016 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Blue
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Re: 2016 Language Learning Log - Indonesian, maybe a little Russian

Postby Blue » Sun May 01, 2016 2:43 am

I'm just going to do a quick update to my reading log while I have some time.

Book 7
Image
Batu Penglihatan (Translation)
Word Count - 9,056
Words Read to Date: 111,183

Book 8
Image
Rahasia Lucinda (Translation)
Word Count - 9,452
Words Read to Date: 120,635

Indonesia is partnering with South Korea to design and build a fighter jet. From a large Indonesian military blog, I copied every article they've published on the subject and pasted them into a text file. Its quite a few articles, comparable in word count to one of the SWC books I'm currently reading, so I'll log it as a book when I'm done with it. I prefer this approach to just reading random news articles. I might do the same thing on a different subject after I finish this one.
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Re: 2016 Language Learning Log - Indonesian, maybe a little Russian

Postby Adrianslont » Sun May 01, 2016 3:56 am

Takretak, thank you for all of those resources and leads. I spent and hour or two skimming around them and other places YouTube took me.

Rumpi looks a bit too fast for me but Kick Andy was better, he speaks nice and slow! I downloaded a couple of episodes I was interested in and ripped the audio for my commute this week. While on you YouTube I also discovered Mata Najwa and did the same.

It was me who was being masochistic with ILC and I know what you mean! They can drone on and Bang Karni sounds like he has emphysema and dental problems but there are a couple of episodes I was interested in on the death penalty and prostitusion.

I couldn't find Dimensi but I downloaded a bunch of new SBS Australia podcasts which look interesting. I've been using them for extensive listening for a while and if I like a particular story I listen to it repeatedly. Do you know the SBS podcasts? Are you Australian? They are aimed at expat Indonesians living in Australia and deal with Australian politics as much as Indonesian politics. Actually I generally prefer the stories around health and social issues.

The George Quinn dictionary sounds great. I have leafed through the Sneddon books and they are great. I've actually found a couple of websites that deal with colloquial Indonesian quite well too.

Despite my complaint that Indonesian lacks the resources of other languages there is more than enough to work with really. I just have to find the time to do so. Still I am slowly but steadily improving.

Do you know the IndoDic E-kamus? It's a nice little dictionary app for Windows. It's much better than my iPhone dictionary app.

I had a look at the Turkish soap opera you linked to. They speak nice and slowly! I might give it a try but it looks a bit grim. I like the look of Tetangga Masa Gitu but struggle with it. A dubbed series is probably a better place to start.

Thanks again, like Blue, you have given me some good leads I will use.
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Re: 2016 Language Learning Log - Indonesian, maybe a little Russian

Postby takretak » Sun May 01, 2016 5:07 am

You're welcome guys.

Film has always interested me more than television, and I found this to be especially so in Indonesia. Even now that I live in Jakarta , there are still no tv shows that I watch on a regular basis - I just watch a "little bit of everything" from time to time. So my recommendation is to sample everything until you find something you like! Back when I was first learning Indonesian/living in Australia, however, movies were my go to. I have lots of film recommendations, and again if you can buy legal from an Indonesian seller it is almost certainly worth it, as most legal DVDs have Indonesian language subs, which will be extremely valuable as a learning aid. Some of my favourite films are Merantau (2009 Action), Tanda Tanya (2011 Drama), Laskar Pelangi (2008 Drama), Radit dan Jani (2008 Drama), or even Ada Apa Dengan Cinta (2002 Teen Drama, known locally as AADC and something of a national treasure) may hold your interest longer than television, if you are anything like me! One technique I found useful (rather than just bulk listening volume) was to rip the audio track from films and then (over a period of time) cut it up into a couple of hundred separate audio files, each containing just a single sentence (labour of love). I would then add these sentences into my ANKI deck (just the audio file on the front side, and the Indonesian transliteration on the back side) checking any vocab unknowns as I put them in, and then rep them as they came up, spending about a minute on each card parroting the audio until I got my accent respectable. This was most beneficial to my ability to speak and understand colloquial Indonesian, however without Alan's dictionary and Sneddon's Colloquial Jakartan Indonesian it would have been quite difficult.

R.e. reading I found it useful to (as a general rule) read "extensively" from books, and "intensively" from articles. It was a mental separation which worked well for me. For intensive reading, I spent a lot of time working over the "Feature" articles from National Geographic Indonesia (available freely from their website online), which I found pleasant enough, varied and quite informative. @Blue it sounds like you are all set with non-fiction - finding a topic which holds your attention is sometimes half the battle! For fiction, in addition to 'easy to read' translated novels, there are also a number of Indonesian writers who are accessible for intermediate readers. Djenar Maesa Ayu's stuff is easy to track down online and is one good example - her prose if relatively short and not overly complex (and her twitter feed is entertaining). See http://www.rajaebookgratis.com/2010/04/ ... minmu.html for an ebook of one of her early short story collections (the name of the site translates as "King of Free Ebooks", go figure).

@Adrian I am familiar with the SBS Australia podcasts (I am also Australian :D). I remember back in the day they often had guests talking in English and Australians speaking (bad) Indonesian on the podcast, and were usually quite short, which is why I didn't favour them too much (perhaps things have changed?). ABC also has an Indonesian language program called Radio Australia, but I have little direct experience with it - maybe this is worth looking into? The IndoDic E-Kamus is fast and probably quite useful at an intermediate level, but the underlying lexicon is is based on the Wayne Krause dictionary (sometimes just called "TruAlfa") and lacks the detail of Alan's dictionary (I use a PDF of Alan's dictionary by the way, the physical book is like 1100 pages -__-). Also there are no example sentences displayed, from what I recall. I am extremely partial to Alan's dictionary and would not recommend anything else for general use, with the exception for George Quinn's Learner's Dictionary at the earlier stages of language learning, but these things are personal preference. Again, you can check out Alan's dictionary for free at http://sealang.net/indonesia/dictionary.htm and see if you like it.
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Re: 2016 Language Learning Log - Indonesian, maybe a little Russian

Postby Adrianslont » Sun May 01, 2016 10:40 am

Takretak, thanks for the movie recommendations - I was going to ask you for some and forgot. I live in the eastern suburbs of Sydney and I know Laskar Pelangi and AADC are in the local library. I have been avoiding any movie with the word Cinta but will now watch that one!

I actually made Anki cards out of 3 movies I borrowed from the library myself. I used some software called Subtitle Edit and subs2srs to make the cards. You can turn a movie into a thousand cards in about an hour and most of that hour is spent making coffee, drinking it and waiting. This only really works if you have accurate target language subs and, as you say, Recent Indonesian movies do! It does take at least half a day to make your first deck, though, to get your head around the software. If you are interested in doing this for your Turkish learning have a look at this link http://learnanylanguage.wikia.com/wiki/Subs2srs

All that said, you need to find movies you really like - I only got through one movie worth of cards and half of the other two. I will definitely try his again - maybe with AADC.

The SBS podcast is a mixed bag. The stories are about 7-8 minutes usually but sometimes longer and up to an hour. There was an interview with George Quinn not long ago!

Cheers!
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Re: 2016 Language Learning Log - Indonesian, maybe a little Russian

Postby takretak » Sun May 01, 2016 11:21 am

Haha yeah you are probably right to be wary of such films @Adrian... AADC is a high school love story, definitely not my usual kind of movie, but it's something of a modern Indonesian pop culture touchstone and the language is pretty representative of modern colloquial Indonesian, so it's worth watching for that alone... Laskar Pelangi is however a legitimately pleasant/enjoyable film, worth watching in its own right (even if you weren't learning Indonesian), as is Merantau.

George Quinn... In addition to speaking excellent Indonesian and Javanese, George Quinn is a genuinely nice guy. About three years ago I started learning Sundanese, a regional language or bahasa daerah spoken in parts of Indonesia, and reached out to him asking if he knew of any good resources. He sent me back an 800 word email with advice on where to go to find materials and some of his own friends living nearby who might be able to help! He has a personal blog at https://walktenthousandmiles.net/ which you might enjoy reading through, though it's not strictly Indonesia-related.

I will definitely make use of subs2srs when I get underway with Turkish.
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Blue
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Re: 2016 Language Learning Log - Indonesian, maybe a little Russian

Postby Blue » Sat Feb 04, 2017 1:51 am

Well its been a very long time since I've updated this log. By necessity language study is kind of an on-off thing for me. But fortunately my break from study wasn't nearly as long as my break from posting so I have a big update for my reading log.

Book 9
Image
Pohon Besi (Translation)
Word Count - 9,133
Words Read to Date: 129,768

You know... the picture thing is too big of a pain in the ass to do 6 times in a row. Everyone know what Harry Potter books look like.

Book 10
Harry Potter dan Batu Bertuah (Translation)
Word Count - 69,686
Words Read to Date: 196,454

Book 11
Harry Potter dan Kamar Rahasia (Translation)
Word Count - 77.538
Words Read to Date: 273,992

Book 12
Harry Potter dan Tawanan Azakaban (Translation)
Word Count - 99,308
Words Read to Date: 373,300

Book 13
Harry Potter dan Piala Api (Translation)
Word Count - 164,463
Words Read to Date: 537,763

Book 14
Harry Potter dan Orde Phoenix (Translation)
Word Count - 234,639
Words Read to Date: 772,402

From 120k words to 772k in one update. Not bad, huh? Using the 250 words per page rule of thumb, I'm up to over 3,000 pages. Plus a good bit of reading online, news articles and the like. I feel pretty good about my reading level in formal Indonesian. I'm particularly happy with my improvement in reading speed throughout the course of reading the Harry Potter series. As you may be aware, Indonesian is extremely diglossic. My informal Indonesian may be a bit behind my formal Indo, but not by much thanks to text chatting on Line and HelloTalk. I find it very convenient compared to Skype video/voice calls because I can read and reply whenever I have the time. In addition to a couple of languages partners, I'm a member of a chat group with dozens of native speakers. Not only do I read it a lot, but the chat log is easily searchable. Very nice on the occasions when I want to see a slang word in real life context.

For a while I struggled badly with listening, but the NHK news podcast with transcripts got me over the hump. After listening and reading along for a few days I made a decent jump in skill. There are a couple of Indo TV shows that I like which fortunately have many full episodes available on YouTube. I've also watched many Indo booktube videos. There's a big governor's election about to take place in Jakarta with some related controversies, so I've been watching the debates and interviews with candidates. At times I still get frustrated with listening, but progress is being made.

Future plans are to read the last 2 Harry Potter books then move on to native novels, keep watching a variety of content on YouTube, and continue chatting with natives.
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Re: 2016 Language Learning Log - Indonesian, maybe a little Russian

Postby Adrianslont » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:45 am

Good to see your update, Blue. That's an impressive amount of reading. I will write a longer post later about what I've been doing - must sleep now.
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Re: 2016 Language Learning Log - Indonesian, maybe a little Russian

Postby Adrianslont » Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:01 am

Hi again, Blue. As I said, that's a good amount of reading! I don't think I've been doing as much as you but I'll tell you about it in case it is helpful or of interest.

I've been continuing to watch Thomas the tank engine cartoons with some enjoyment and profit but I think they are starting to lose some charm for me. About two weeks ago I chased up a Turkish soap opera called Efsun Dan Bahar, as recommended by takretak, on YouTube. I'm really not a soap opera fan but I got addicted to it and quite enjoyed it when they weren't crying. I watched thirty episodes and got to the end of a season. Now I am looking for a new one with a long bunch of consecutive episodes.

I have also watched a few episodes of the Kick Andy talk show.

I've done some reading, a few books from a teen vampire series by a guy called Darren Shan. They were good for me and I should read the remaining three - I picked them up for a dollar each. And I have probably read a dozen more Tintin since I last reported - pretty sure I've read them all now. Some I found online as pdfs if you are interested - though some were very poorly scanned.

I also bought 4 Tintin in Indonesia! Last September - October I spent time in SEA including two weeks in Bali, a week in Sumatra and five days in Jakarta. I did 20 hours with a tutor in Bali but the time in Sumatra and Jakarta was probably more beneficial language wise as here was much less English spoken there and I hired drivers who were happy to converse in BI. Good fun was had. Northern Sumatra was very scenic in the countryside.

I have the Harry Potter books in PDF and I'm probably ready for them now but I've been avoiding reading because of neck pain - I hope to overcome that soon.

I've probably forgotten stuff but it's nice to share with a fellow learner. Cheers.
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Blue
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Re: 2016 Language Learning Log - Indonesian, maybe a little Russian

Postby Blue » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:20 pm

Hey Adrian. Its good to hear from you. Its great you've found TV shows you like. Personally, I haven't found any fictional shows I've been able to get into. My favorite have been travel shows. There are a bunch of them. My personal favorite is Indonesia Bagus. It features interesting stuff, the language used is easily comprehensible, and there are a ton of episodes all available on YouTube. I'm jealous of your trip to Indonesia. North Sumatera looks awesome. Did you visit TN Leuser? Assuming the ability to read formal BI well is a goal of yours, the Harry Potter series should definitely give you a nice boost.

Book 15
Harry Potter dan Pangeran Berdarah Campuran (Translation)
Word Count - 150,178
Words Read to Date: 922,580

My next book will put me over 1 million words, which is a cool milestone. I'm anxious to get the final HP book done and move on to native literature. When I started the series, I read at 75wpm and translated every word in my head. Now its effortless for me to read without translating and my speed has doubled to 150wpm. And that is probably a slight underestimate as it includes time looking things up. I read very fast in my native language, so slow reading is very frustrating for me. Its a major goal of mine to get that wpm figure up as high as I can.

When I start a new book, I tend to binge read it and neglect other aspects of study. So I take time between books to focus on those aspects. So I'm going to focus on listening, speaking, and informal language for a bit before tackling the last HP book.
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