Languages and Life: Gary's log (Italian, Spanish, German, Japanese, bits of French)

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reineke
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Re: Languages and Life: Gary's log (Italian, Spanish, bits of French)

Postby reineke » Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:56 pm

"Jeeg" was one of the first things I watched in Italian. I have very fond memories of the show, and I could shout "doppio maglio perforante" before I knew the language was called Italian. The movie has been on Netflix for a while but I don't dare watch it. Good luck with Spanish and your other language studies.

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Re: Languages and Life: Gary's log (Italian, Spanish, bits of French)

Postby garyb » Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:29 pm

reineke wrote:"Jeeg" was one of the first things I watched in Italian. I have very fond memories of the show, and I could shout "doppio maglio perforante" before I knew the language was called Italian. The movie has been on Netflix for a while but I don't dare watch it. Good luck with Spanish and your other language studies.


That does help to give it some context. I've always found it interesting that all my Italian friends grew up watching dubbed Japanese cartoons. The film doesn't have much relation, just that one of the characters is a big fan and compares the protagonist to the hero from the cartoon.

Time for an update because I have travel plans! In the middle of next month I'm leaving for Málaga, Spain. I plan to spend a month or two in Andalucía, then some time in Sardinia, then after that who knows; maybe more of Spain and/or Italy or maybe somewhere else entirely. I also have Portugal and Greece in mind for sooner or later.

My priority before I leave is still Spanish, since Spain is the first destination and I already speak Italian quite well whereas my Spanish has much more room for improvement. If I manage to finish FSI and get through a decent bit of TV and film, that'll be ideal. Italian's enough of a part of my life now that it's not exactly going to be neglected. All this really just amounts to keeping doing what I'm doing. However, I've agreed to work a few days per week for the next few weeks, as the company I worked for is a bit stuck for resources at the moment and I wouldn't mind the cash, so I'll have a bit less language learning time.

There's the question of how to make the most of my time in the countries, especially as I'll be spending longer there than I normally would so might have more opportunities to socialise with locals, but I'll probably just play that by ear. I'm aware that I'm starting in a very touristy area full of monolingual British visitors and residents, but everybody says the locals are friendly there and they might appreciate somebody who does know some Spanish.

Edit: Should probably also try to get some more exposure to Andalusian accents to prepare, as they're infamous for being difficult!
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Re: Languages and Life: Gary's log (Italian, Spanish, bits of French)

Postby arthaey » Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:26 pm

garyb wrote:There's the question of how to make the most of my time in the countries, especially as I'll be spending longer there than I normally would so might have more opportunities to socialise with locals, but I'll probably just play that by ear. I'm aware that I'm starting in a very touristy area full of monolingual British visitors and residents, but everybody says the locals are friendly there and they might appreciate somebody who does know some Spanish.

In my experience, even in the most touristy of places, all you have to do is walk "across the tracks" and suddenly everyone is monolingual in the country language again.

I saw this multiple times in Mexico. For example, in San Miguel de Allende, which is fully 10% English-speaking ex-pats who've impacted the center of town & the real estate market… But as soon we walked across the river, it was back to "normal" Mexico, with no other gringos to be seen.

Saw the same thing in Cancún, where the tourist-bubble was even smaller.

It was also true of Costa Rica, Spain, and even a little bit in Zurich and Munich (we were there only a few days each, so we didn't have as much opportunity to explore, but even then we found non-English speakers easily).
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Re: Languages and Life: Gary's log (Italian, Spanish, bits of French)

Postby garyb » Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:45 pm

arthaey wrote:In my experience, even in the most touristy of places, all you have to do is walk "across the tracks" and suddenly everyone is monolingual in the country language again.

I saw this multiple times in Mexico. For example, in San Miguel de Allende, which is fully 10% English-speaking ex-pats who've impacted the center of town & the real estate market… But as soon we walked across the river, it was back to "normal" Mexico, with no other gringos to be seen.

Saw the same thing in Cancún, where the tourist-bubble was even smaller.

It was also true of Costa Rica, Spain, and even a little bit in Zurich and Munich (we were there only a few days each, so we didn't have as much opportunity to explore, but even then we found non-English speakers easily).


That's good to hear, and it's similar to my own experiences in which how touristy a place is isn't necessarily a factor in how much I get to use the language. Florence is full of Americans and Brits yet I spoke Italian all the time there, while in Catania, not exactly a top destination especially for Anglophones, almost everybody responded in English. Even in Barcelona, considered one of the worst places in Spain to learn Spanish (due to being in Catalonia and a very international city) I got to use my basic Spanish a reasonable bit. I believe it's more a question of mentality (of the people there and of the learner) than one of location.
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Re: Languages and Life: Gary's log (Italian, Spanish, bits of French)

Postby garyb » Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:26 am

Again not a whole lot to report; posting more for the sake of consistency rather than anything else! In two weeks from now I'll be landing in Spain. I'd like to say that I've been doing a bout of intense study in preparation for the trip, but the reality is that I've been too busy with work and travel preparations to fit in much language time.

I'm still doing what I can: continuing with Vis a Vis even if only a small part of an episode per day, taking a couple of Skype lessons per week, and trying to get through the last seven FSI units (although some of them are monsters, I'm currently on 47 with its infamously long dialogue!). Recently the Skype lessons have mostly just been conversation rather than learning activities, which suits me perfectly: my teacher has understood that I'm doing the learning activities part in my own time. Plus now that we've gotten to know each other better it's easier to just chat. The conversations are always inspiring since she's an experienced traveller and comes from the area I'm about to visit.

Still chatting in Italian a couple of times a week and doing the drama classes although that's been a lower priority, to the dismay of the teacher since I'm not finding much time to learn my lines! Pronunciation work has also yet again gone out the window a bit.

I've been thinking about meeting people and interacting with natives during the trip, since I hardly know anybody in Spain. There are always the obvious options like hostels, CouchSurfing meetings, and language exchange events, but I've learnt that the whole "international meetup" scene isn't really for me and English tends to be the main language. Might still be better than no company though! As always, music is probably my best bet if I'm staying in a place for longer: gigs, open mic nights, looking for people to jam with, and so on. I'm planning on picking up a cheap classical guitar there, as taking my good one is looking too expensive and risky.
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Re: Languages and Life: Gary's log (Italian, Spanish, bits of French)

Postby DaveBee » Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:36 pm

garyb wrote: I'm planning on picking up a cheap classical guitar there, as taking my good one is looking too expensive and risky.
Perhaps you could get a gofer job with a guitar luthier? You'd practice your spanish, AND learn how to make a guitar. :-)
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Re: Languages and Life: Gary's log (Italian, Spanish, bits of French)

Postby garyb » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:29 am

Could be a good experience! Reminds me of a friend's story about coming across a luthier's workshop in Granada and going in for a visit.

Similar to last week: still getting ready and still not finding much language time. I finished FSI unit 47... Yes, the one I said I had started a week ago. I'm just accepting that there's no way I'll finish them all before I go to Spain. As for Vis a vis, I have two and a half episodes to go so finishing that might be possible.

I have had another lesson, and I also had a chat with somebody from Almería whose accent was a bit tricky to understand. Many more similar experiences to come! I still think that my speaking is improving, and one of the signs of that is that it's negatively affecting my Italian: more and more Spanish-influenced mistakes. I reckon it's partly temporary since I'm focusing on Spanish so my brain's dealing with everything I'm learning in that, but partly here to stay. Learning Italian has had seemingly permanent negative effects on my French: there are mistakes I make and things I have to think about (prepositions etc.) that had never been an issue before. But it's a small price to pay for being able to speak a whole other language. All I can say is that landing in Sardinia after a couple of months of Spanish immersion is going to be fun...

With my recent speaking I'm feeling that I'm getting enough practice but I just need more input. A lot of my mistakes and uncertainties seem to be caused by not having heard and read enough. For example I keep saying "volver en [country]" instead of "volver a", and "pensar a" instead of "pensar en"; both are obviously influences from Italian, but if I had heard the correct forms enough times I wouldn't use the incorrect ones so regularly because they just wouldn't feel right.

Cinema: The Italian film festival here has started and I'm hoping to see a couple of things, one tonight. I'll report back. I also found out recently that the Málaga film festival starts a few days after I arrive! I was planning to only spend a couple of nights there (as I'll be returning for a week later during the trip) but that might well tempt me to stay for longer. I'm not sure if my Spanish level will be up to understanding the films though. I've also heard that Málaga simply has many more things to do than the other places I'm planning to visit in the area so it could be worth spending a bit of time there. Here at least it has a reputation as a beach resort and party town, but it seems like there's also lots of cultural stuff going on beyond that.
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Re: Languages and Life: Gary's log (Italian, Spanish, bits of French)

Postby garyb » Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:58 am

I've been in Spain for almost two weeks now. Five days in Malaga and now I'm in Granada for a couple of weeks. I'm definitely feeling the benefits of immersion, and I've been speaking most days. Not only short conversations in shops but also longer ones with hostel staff and guests and so on.

I've been to a couple of CouchSurfing / language exchange meetups where mostly Spanish was spoken. I know I said I'm not too keen on these because they're "fake social life", but still they're pretty much the easiest way to Meet Locals and Practise The Language, and when I'm only staying in a place for a week or two I'm not exactly going to make "real" social connections anyway. From a social point of view, the hostel scene can be better in that everybody's in the same boat, although the main language is of course English. Both have their advantages. Anyway for now I'm staying in a private room so I have some space to work and study.

The interesting part: native speakers' attitudes towards a learner whose Spanish is far from perfect! Overall positive. Most staff are happy to use Spanish with me, even when I've heard them use decent English with other customers. There's generally quite a pragmatic attitude without any power struggle nonsense: if you can get by in Spanish they'll use Spanish. You do get the odd person who insists on English, and funnily enough one of them got my order wrong, while nobody has had problems with my orders in Spanish :roll: Socially it's quite similar, most people speak some English and are keen to practise it but they're also happy to help learners practise Spanish.

I've not had much time for real language study. Sometimes I think "I'm in Spain, I don't need to study Spanish", but as an experienced language learner I know better ;). I still want to finish FSI, which has helped me so much in getting to where I am now; I still have six units to go, and who knows how long these will take considering I've done one in the last two weeks.

Other languages: my Italian is still getting worse. One of the hostel staff in Malaga was Italian, but we mostly ended up speaking Spanish and when I did use Italian I was struggling! I'm hoping to get a Skype chat in the next few days just to keep up practice. I used a bit of French yesterday: I was hiking and a French couple were lost and asked me for directions. It felt like the words weren't coming to me immediately but I managed.
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Re: Languages and Life: Gary's log (Italian, Spanish, bits of French)

Postby reineke » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:59 pm

Your Italian could be getting inhibited in this new environment. I actually saw some studies about this. Good luck.
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Re: Languages and Life: Gary's log (Italian, Spanish, bits of French)

Postby garyb » Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:13 am

reineke wrote:Your Italian could be getting inhibited in this new environment. I actually saw some studies about this. Good luck.


Interesting idea and quite possible! It has felt a bit "inhibited" when I've tried to speak, and that would make sense when there's so much Spanish going on.
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