Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Chinese Galaxy

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outcast
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Basic: -
~
ACQUIRING
Formally: KO한국말, ITaliano, HI हिन्दी
Dabbling: HRvatski, GW粵語
Dormant: POrtuguês
~
Plan to learn: I BETTER NOT GO HERE FOR NOW
~
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Re: Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Chinese Galaxy

Postby outcast » Tue Aug 16, 2016 2:10 am

Finally after what seems the last month of continuous small ailments one after the other, I have been in a rhythm. Except for the last two days where my study levels have been a bit less. I have since the last update completed the Basic Spoken Chinese book and oral exercises. They have really been great. With so many oral exercises I have been practicing them out loud, in very loud voice. I have also tweaked one of the exercises to instead of just repeating the sentence twice (a sentence structure to which different vocab terms are substituted), on the second repeat I try saying the sentence as fast as I can without losing my form in pronouncing consonant, vowel, and tone. By repeating faster then I have time to say the sentence twice or thrice at fast speed. This forces me to think very quickly about the pronunciation and tone + what vocab or phrase I need to use, and hopefully gains me spoken fluency by making my brain think quicker than the average speed of speech. I can tell my confidence speaking has increased.

The grammar reviews have also been very helpful. It is interesting how many utterly basic concepts tend to drift away if you don't go back once in a while. I go three or four times through any material I use, at least. Of course by the third or fourth time, I can go through lessons much quicker. I am also highlighting certain small details of usage to polish my speech. In the first one or two studies of the book, of course the focus is on the major grammar and usage points. Now that those are mostly mastered, I am focusing on the smaller details the book presents.

In addition I have in this time completed lesson 1 on the Boya Advanced Book 7, and today finishing lesson 2. I am finding the book's grammar and vocab "easy" to the point it is slightly eerie. I will wait to get through half the book to make more of an indictment on what this may mean about the actual book and my Chinese level. It could be the next lessons really get heavy.

Today I am hitting Intermediate Spoken Chinese. This would be my 3rd review of units 11, 12, and probably 13 of this volume. And 2nd review of lessons 14 and 15. I plan to slow down a bit when I hit lesson 15. Once I start lesson 16 it is "new material" (though I am sure I have seen most of the structures and vocab since the level of these lessons is right around the A2-B1 border). But again, to see studied material through new explanations is always good, and the book still contains many helpful vocabulary and cultural usage notes that I enjoy gleaning through.
1 x
"I can speak wonderfully and clearly in zero languages, and can also fluently embarrass myself in half a dozen others."

The End of Language learning: 10 / 10000

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outcast
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Posts: 585
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Basic: -
~
ACQUIRING
Formally: KO한국말, ITaliano, HI हिन्दी
Dabbling: HRvatski, GW粵語
Dormant: POrtuguês
~
Plan to learn: I BETTER NOT GO HERE FOR NOW
~
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Re: Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Chinese Galaxy

Postby outcast » Mon Aug 22, 2016 8:54 am

In a completely unrelated matter to this thread's topic, yesterday I had a major "aha!" moment in my language learning life, I want to proudly share with everyone!

In a fugacious moment of pure clarity and supernal penetration into the abstruse recesses of human communication, I managed to see the semantic connection between English "Much obliged!" and Portuguese "Obrigado!".

Please, don't stand too long in ovation and applause!

- - - -

Small update: I am in the middle of Unit 16 Intermediate Spoken Chinese, plowing through and doing tons of oral practice. Practicing the muscles, getting them tired. Flexing the brain, getting it tired: substitution, transformation, and translation exercises. Exercises of speed with tone accuracy, saying things as fast as possible and still hitting the tones, I have actually seen a real improvement with this technique and when I speak I feel I have more "time" to use the right tone with unfamiliar words, I guess since I have been forcing myself to think faster in the training exercises, which far less time to output the right tone. I am going on a trip soon (FINALLY), so I have been buying travel tickets, hotel, and doing lots of online research on sights, and scouring maps to get my bearings before arrival... so I have not done much on the Boya front but today I should get that going now that most preparations are complete.
0 x
"I can speak wonderfully and clearly in zero languages, and can also fluently embarrass myself in half a dozen others."

The End of Language learning: 10 / 10000

User avatar
outcast
Blue Belt
Posts: 585
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:41 pm
Location: Florida, USA
Languages: ~
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Native: ENglish, ESpañol
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Basic: -
~
ACQUIRING
Formally: KO한국말, ITaliano, HI हिन्दी
Dabbling: HRvatski, GW粵語
Dormant: POrtuguês
~
Plan to learn: I BETTER NOT GO HERE FOR NOW
~
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Re: Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Chinese Galaxy

Postby outcast » Mon Aug 22, 2016 12:09 pm

Oh, one neat feature of the Intermediate Spoken Chinese by Cornelius Kubler (Tuttle Publishing) that I have discovered is that their listening practice exercises have an extra dimension added in that they are performed by speakers from specific regions of China. Furthermore, before the listening passages begin, there is a "heads up" of sorts in English about where each of the (usually two) speakers is from, and what their accent is. I think this was very thoughtful indeed, and allows intermediate to advanced learners to pick up accent cues quicker than merely through random chance encounters. Obviously the other benefit is you train your ears to each accent and thus over time improve your comprehension rate. It is also a plus that the speaking is natural and not "textbook" robot-like Mandarin.

The accents most focused upon are Beijing, Taipei, Hong Kong, and to a lesser extent Shanghai. There are also at times speakers from Xi An, Malaysia, and Chongqing. My initial thoughts are:

Beijing without the "R" sounds very round and with amplitude of highs and lows. A bit sing-sung.
Beijing Mandarin with heavy use of "R" sounds like they have food in their mouth! And at times quite hard to really tell word boundaries
Hong Kong (Cantonese influenced) Mandarin sounds a bit like when older people talk to babies or young kids... hahaha, at least to me. Like the syllables are very crisp with clear gaps of sound between words/syllables. Maybe its an influence of the checked tones. Also the /a/ sounds more like /ae/.
Taiwan Mandarin sounds quite flat compared to the other ones and especially Beijing accent. Like the tones are very monotonous and there is a clear fall in pitch regardless of tone at the end of sentences.
Xi An accent... there is only one man in the dialogues, but his speech is so CRISP and CLEAR! I do not know if it is just this speaker or if the Mandarin from that area is actually like this, in which case it is to me the best sounding one I have heard.
Shanghai accent is the one I can't pin point, I really don't find any distinguishing feature for it except that it is flat kinda like Taiwan Mandarin but not quite as much. I guess I need more listening.
Malaysian and Chongqing only have occurred once an so I can't really say much yet, except that the Malaysian accent is obviously unlike any in the Mainland or Greater China.
1 x
"I can speak wonderfully and clearly in zero languages, and can also fluently embarrass myself in half a dozen others."

The End of Language learning: 10 / 10000

User avatar
outcast
Blue Belt
Posts: 585
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Location: Florida, USA
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Native: ENglish, ESpañol
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Basic: -
~
ACQUIRING
Formally: KO한국말, ITaliano, HI हिन्दी
Dabbling: HRvatski, GW粵語
Dormant: POrtuguês
~
Plan to learn: I BETTER NOT GO HERE FOR NOW
~
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Re: Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Chinese Galaxy

Postby outcast » Mon Aug 22, 2016 12:57 pm

A bit of housekeeping:

Since I am now once again completing new lessons in my original Mandarin learning material (Tuttle Spoken Chinese, NPCR), I will for the sake of "continuity" log my completions of lessons as I used to do in 2013 to 2015 before coming to China. In China at university I have gone through tons of other course materials of course, but I count those as separate and part of my university study.

So:


Unit Completion Entry 97

Unit 14 Lesson 2 Intermediate Spoken Chinese
8.20.2016

- - - -

Unit Completion Entry 98

Unit 14 Lesson 3 Intermediate Spoken Chinese
8.21.2016

- - - -

Unit Completion Entry 99

Unit 14 Lesson 4 Intermediate Spoken Chinese
8.21.2016

- - - -

Unit Completion Entry 100

Unit 15 Lesson 1 Intermediate Spoken Chinese
8.21.2016
0 x
"I can speak wonderfully and clearly in zero languages, and can also fluently embarrass myself in half a dozen others."

The End of Language learning: 10 / 10000

User avatar
outcast
Blue Belt
Posts: 585
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:41 pm
Location: Florida, USA
Languages: ~
FLUENCY
Native: ENglish, ESpañol
Advanced: -
High Basic: DEutsch (rust), FRançais (rust), ZH中文
Basic: -
~
ACQUIRING
Formally: KO한국말, ITaliano, HI हिन्दी
Dabbling: HRvatski, GW粵語
Dormant: POrtuguês
~
Plan to learn: I BETTER NOT GO HERE FOR NOW
~
x 679

Re: Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Chinese Galaxy

Postby outcast » Thu Aug 25, 2016 1:30 pm

Unit Completion Entry 101

Unit 15 Lesson 2 Intermediate Spoken Chinese
8.22.2016

- - - -

Unit Completion Entry 102

Unit 15 Lesson 3 Intermediate Spoken Chinese
8.22.2016

- - - -

Unit Completion Entry 103

Unit 15 Lesson 4 Intermediate Spoken Chinese
8.22.2016

- - - -

Unit Completion Entry 104

Unit 16 Lesson 1 Intermediate Spoken Chinese
8.23.2016

- - - -

Unit Completion Entry 105

Unit 16 Lesson 2 Intermediate Spoken Chinese
8.23.2016

- - - -

Unit Completion Entry 106

Unit 16 Lesson 3 Intermediate Spoken Chinese
8.24.2016

- - - -

Unit Completion Entry 107

Unit 16 Lesson 4 Intermediate Spoken Chinese
8.24.2016
0 x
"I can speak wonderfully and clearly in zero languages, and can also fluently embarrass myself in half a dozen others."

The End of Language learning: 10 / 10000

User avatar
outcast
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Posts: 585
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:41 pm
Location: Florida, USA
Languages: ~
FLUENCY
Native: ENglish, ESpañol
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High Basic: DEutsch (rust), FRançais (rust), ZH中文
Basic: -
~
ACQUIRING
Formally: KO한국말, ITaliano, HI हिन्दी
Dabbling: HRvatski, GW粵語
Dormant: POrtuguês
~
Plan to learn: I BETTER NOT GO HERE FOR NOW
~
x 679

Re: Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Chinese Galaxy

Postby outcast » Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:19 am

Unit Completion Entry 108

Unit 17 Lesson 1 Intermediate Spoken Chinese
8.25.2016

- - - -

Unit Completion Entry 109

Unit 17 Lesson 2 Intermediate Spoken Chinese
8.25.2016

- - - -

Unit Completion Entry 110

Unit 17 Lesson 3 Intermediate Spoken Chinese
8.26.2016

- - - -

Unit Completion Entry 111

Unit 17 Lesson 4 Intermediate Spoken Chinese
8.27.2016

- - - -

Unit Completion Entry 112

Unit 18 Lesson 1 Intermediate Spoken Chinese
10.15.2016
0 x
"I can speak wonderfully and clearly in zero languages, and can also fluently embarrass myself in half a dozen others."

The End of Language learning: 10 / 10000

User avatar
outcast
Blue Belt
Posts: 585
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:41 pm
Location: Florida, USA
Languages: ~
FLUENCY
Native: ENglish, ESpañol
Advanced: -
High Basic: DEutsch (rust), FRançais (rust), ZH中文
Basic: -
~
ACQUIRING
Formally: KO한국말, ITaliano, HI हिन्दी
Dabbling: HRvatski, GW粵語
Dormant: POrtuguês
~
Plan to learn: I BETTER NOT GO HERE FOR NOW
~
x 679

Re: Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Chinese Galaxy

Postby outcast » Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:40 am

I have not updated here in over a month, even though I still am, with my Swiss Army Knife-sized chisel, chipping away at Planet Mars. Or that is how it feels.

Chinese to a fluent level is a very long term assignment, and it is clear there are not many shortcuts. So I just keep chugging. All my skills gradually have improved, even though I am not satisfied. What I have discovered is that as of now I can say whatever I want to say whenever I want to say it. The difference between this rudimentary grasp and the more advanced one is that in the more advanced fluency you know which word fits best for your speech at what time, with whom, and under what atmospherics and mood. I am not there yet. With Chinese, it also is about knowing how to express concept with a Chinese way of thinking, which takes tons of listening to material. Lately I am frustrated with my tones, they seem more out of place than earlier, but I think it is because I am trying new phrase styles and words, and with tonal languages you need to exercise each new tone/syllable combination before you feel comfortable.

Lately I've focused on reading and character recognition, I have been putting hard work and time in recognizing characters when they stand alone, without the help of context, and be able to list the majority of the possible meanings of such character. I also mentally write out the character in my head for stroke practice. The result has been when I write characters I am more accurate than before, which makes sense. I am in general doing lots of reading and listening. I am mainly reviewing material but I am now continuing with the Intermediate Spoken Chinese, and in the 3 weeks after I returned from my travel holidays, I worked through the Boya Chinese Book 7, and completed it. Now I only have Book 8 to go for the rest of the 3 months I have in this semester. The only "new material" left is the last 5 chapters of ISC by Kubler (not much left), two advanced level Spoken Chinese book which I can work through in the next three months, and half of New Practical Chinese reader book 4 and books 5-6 (which are mainly written or literary language so I can work on those at my convenience).

For now I just do tons of review, just listening and reading over and over to internalize the whole ____ . Aside from all that, I have been having conversations with Chinese and will increase the amount as my review becomes easier from familiarity. I will try to force new phrases and words into my conversations. Listen to TV when I can... In short, I am running out of study materials and after this time all that is left is pure native learning stuff, which is fine and more longer term. The goal still is HSK 6 at some point soon.

Getting to basic fluency in Chinese has been harder than I anticipated, but I am slowly getting there. I am a bit of a perfectionist in grammar, vocab, and pronunciation. There are other people who tell me they reached some fluency faster, but to be honest their tones are sub-standard (usually that is the main problem), some outright bad to non-existent in a couple of extreme cases, I am sorry to say. On the other hand I get upset for saying one tone wrong. I need to borrow a bit of those people's lackadaisical attitudes, and they could borrow from my procrustean mindset to language.

We will see how much more I can pedal in the rest of this study period.
4 x
"I can speak wonderfully and clearly in zero languages, and can also fluently embarrass myself in half a dozen others."

The End of Language learning: 10 / 10000

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outcast
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ACQUIRING
Formally: KO한국말, ITaliano, HI हिन्दी
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~
Plan to learn: I BETTER NOT GO HERE FOR NOW
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x 679

Re: Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Chinese Galaxy

Postby outcast » Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:29 pm

Tones have gotten better again... I think it is more a matter of self-confidence now even more than being tired or sleepy or grumpy or whatever. When I have confidence the tones just come right 90% of the time, when for whatever reason I am not confident I speak with more hesitation and getting my tones wrong increases.

I have had very good conversations last few days, on a bunch of topics, including the US elections, the geo-politics in Asia, relations between tenants and landlords, fruits and veggies. Now this may sound like my level is pretty rad, I mean "geo-politics"? But really, I had to use quite a bit of circumlocution and otherwise just ask how to say something (things 支持率, 民人调查, ) , but at least I am now confident enough and I guess advanced enough that few topics are off the table. I even talked about a currency-board system and how they usually break down (in very simple terms, and again probably butchering the language in order to make myself understood). But these are not easy topics anymore. This is not to brag, but it is a fact. So I am quite please actually.

I am remembering a lot more words lately that are more precise in meaning when I NEED to remember. I had a few of those last few days, much more than before: I used 抓紧 (时间) as a much more original and eloquent way of saying the threadbare 借机会 when trying to express the idea of seizing the moment. I used 境地 for a bad situation instead of the overused 情况. I used 屡屡 in a text message instead of 很多次 to express "time and time again". I am now using more colloquial reactions like 哪儿啊 instead of 不是 when appropriate, or 不是没有可能 instead of saying 有可能 (when wanting to express a transition introducing some condition, which the first phrase is better for).
1 x
"I can speak wonderfully and clearly in zero languages, and can also fluently embarrass myself in half a dozen others."

The End of Language learning: 10 / 10000

User avatar
outcast
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Posts: 585
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Formally: KO한국말, ITaliano, HI हिन्दी
Dabbling: HRvatski, GW粵語
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~
Plan to learn: I BETTER NOT GO HERE FOR NOW
~
x 679

Re: Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Chinese Galaxy

Postby outcast » Thu Oct 27, 2016 4:37 pm

It's an intriguing phenomenon, how when you listen to audio that you had not listen to in a good eight months, you can see a huge difference in the perceived rate of speed of the recording. I remember listening to some of these files back in February, and thinking I will never unscramble them out because the speakers where insanely fast.

Now I find them SLOW.

Yet I still find some people and some interviews on television to proceed at a challenging rate of speed.

I am obsessively including more vocabulary to my text messages and my speech. I am well aware I sound like a fool at times: my Chinese is short of fluent yet I use at times very sophisticated or seldom spoken words. A sort of language Hillbilly. But I don't see any other way to remember these words, I need to use them at any occasion they seem apposite.

I get a reaction from Chinese if I dig out the term 鸡肋, they seem to be stoked that I would know such a word.
1 x
"I can speak wonderfully and clearly in zero languages, and can also fluently embarrass myself in half a dozen others."

The End of Language learning: 10 / 10000

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Re: Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Chinese Galaxy

Postby jeff_lindqvist » Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:20 pm

outcast wrote:It's an intriguing phenomenon, how when you listen to audio that you had not listen to in a good eight months, you can see a huge difference in the perceived rate of speed of the recording. I remember listening to some of these files back in February, and thinking I will never unscramble them out because the speakers where insanely fast.

Now I find them SLOW.


Have you listened to slow audio as well, or just gradually become accustomed to faster speech? Why I'm asking is because I generally prefer listening to "native speed" (including tunes/songs I want to learn) - I even heard a pro musician describe this as "dodging bullets" (like the character Neo does in the Matrix movies). It may take a lot of repetitions, but all of a sudden, even the fastest content becomes SLOW.
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