Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Chinese Galaxy

Continue or start your personal language log here, including logs for challenge participants
User avatar
Expugnator
Black Belt - 1st Dan
Posts: 1728
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:45 pm
Location: Belo Horizonte
Languages: Native Brazilian Portuguese#advanced fluency English, French, Papiamento#basic fluency Italian, Norwegian#intermediate Spanish, German, Georgian and Chinese (Mandarin)#basic Russian, Estonian, Greek (Modern)#just started Indonesian, Hebrew (Modern), Guarani
Language Log: https://forum.language-learners.org/vie ... =15&t=9931
x 3589

Re: Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Chinese Galaxy

Postby Expugnator » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:43 am

Your goals are rather modest, given how hard-working you are. From my experience, achieving C1-level passive skills is something that just happens naturally after some years of regular study, and maintenance at that level is no big deal really, not time consuming. You just have to be sure the range of texts you get exposure to is diverse within the month. I'm sure your passive Italian skills are in the C1-range, and reaching active B2 wouldn't demand much. Judging from my contact with a few people who got B2 or C1 certificates, I think that 1) B2 is much lower than I had in mind, especially actively and 2) I'm underestimating quite a few of my skills, and it seems you are as well.

Indonesian seems easier than Hindi by all means. Being an IE language but far away in terms of vocabulary is no big advantage. You've already learned a non-IE language to a high level, and Indonesian is no syntax monster either.

All this to say 10 languages is not the limit for you, but then your list is so varied that even if you remain at those 10, they'll have brought you a great cultural and linguistic experience.
1 x
Corrections welcome for any language.

User avatar
outcast
Blue Belt
Posts: 585
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:41 pm
Location: Florida, USA
Languages: ~
FLUENCY
Native: ENglish, ESpañol
Advanced: -
High Basic: DEutsch (rust), FRançais (rust), ZH中文
Basic: -
~
ACQUIRING
Formally: KO한국말, ITaliano, HI हिन्दी
Dabbling: HRvatski, GW粵語
Dormant: POrtuguês
~
Plan to learn: I BETTER NOT GO HERE FOR NOW
~
x 679

Re: Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Chinese Galaxy

Postby outcast » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:39 am

Have you been told you have extra-sensory abilities before? I will explain below :mrgreen:

Expugnator wrote:Your goals are rather modest, given how hard-working you are. From my experience, achieving C1-level passive skills is something that just happens naturally after some years of regular study, and maintenance at that level is no big deal really, not time consuming. You just have to be sure the range of texts you get exposure to is diverse within the month.


Yes, I think you are correct. I have had on and off exposure to French and German last two years, but the passive reading skills seem to have held quite intact. I may not have the immediate grasp of many words and phrases, but as soon as I see a forgotten word I recall the meaning, at least most of the time. Listening is mostly OK. I watched the news in German last night for the first time and when discussing the US-Russia situation the vocabulary they used did go over my head a bit. But maybe I never quite had it fully down. I need to give my listening a few weeks to really judge.

Expugnator wrote:I'm sure your passive Italian skills are in the C1-range, and reaching active B2 wouldn't demand much.


It could be, obviously given Spanish, French, Portuguese, etc. I never have been through the experience of reactivating a language I took lessons and learned to a very basic level before being an adult. With the romance languages I am always scared of the interference factor so I try to dissect vocab and phrases in all sorts of ways to make sure I am not speaking some dreaded Itanish, etc. I will be very interesting when I finally sit down to do this to see how it will unfold.

Expugnator wrote:. Judging from my contact with a few people who got B2 or C1 certificates, I think that 1) B2 is much lower than I had in mind, especially actively and 2) I'm underestimating quite a few of my skills, and it seems you are as well.


This is what I meant when I said you have a 6th sense. Just this last week or so I was watching videos online of both failed and successful B1 and B2 examinations for English. Let me be honest, at first I was surprised by how uncomplicated the oral test seem to be. But if was FLOORED by the rather basic level of spoken fluency of the candidates. I mean, one girl on a B1 test would just give answers like "Yes, I like very much", "We go together alright?", and she passed. The B2 candidate that passed had decent grammar control but still did not sound what I would call completely fluent, he searched for words, he had to think a lot about how to formulate his thoughts. Searching for words at B2 was something I always expected, but not the second part: taking so long to think about what to say.

I never actually thought about watching videos about this, so I always just relied on the description of the B2, which in writing seems far more demanding than from the evidence on the oral tests. By comparison, the people who failed didn't seem to have that huge a gap with those that passed, except that they seemed FAR MORE hesitant and at times did not know what to say period. It seems a lot of points are taken off for too much hesitation, even if afterwards you actually do string a few things together.

All that said, I then tried to answer the questions of the B2 test in Chinese to test myself. I did OK in many of them, but in a few questions I also got tripped up, and did not know how to make a completely coherent sentence to answer. So watching it may give a sense of easiness, but doing it is different. Still, to sum up, I feel like you, that B2 oral level seems not that advanced as I thought it was. I have not had a listen yet to C1 tests, and I really don't care much: to me C1 is close or at advanced fluency. And I have an idea in my mind of what the should be. No one else needs to agree, but it is my standard.

As for 10 languages, to clarify, it is the languages I want to study to certain levels before I then take stock of the great journey. I will probably take some sort of break from studying language so much. I will use what I already know, maintain what I learned, and get better wherever and whenever possible. Right now I am a maniac and my life IS language learning. That's what I mean, at the 10L point I just need to do a big exhale. But you are right, 10 will not be it. I still have hopefully a few decades with time to kill... My wish list is still there!
2 x
"I can speak wonderfully and clearly in zero languages, and can also fluently embarrass myself in half a dozen others."

The End of Language learning: 10 / 10000

User avatar
outcast
Blue Belt
Posts: 585
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:41 pm
Location: Florida, USA
Languages: ~
FLUENCY
Native: ENglish, ESpañol
Advanced: -
High Basic: DEutsch (rust), FRançais (rust), ZH中文
Basic: -
~
ACQUIRING
Formally: KO한국말, ITaliano, HI हिन्दी
Dabbling: HRvatski, GW粵語
Dormant: POrtuguês
~
Plan to learn: I BETTER NOT GO HERE FOR NOW
~
x 679

Re: Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Chinese Galaxy

Postby outcast » Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:09 am

It's been three weeks since I posted here, and in the last two weeks nothing has happened actively with my Chinese studies.

I focused the first week on German and some Korean, and last two weeks exclusively on Korean, as I explained in the Spiral Arm log. The break serves two purposes in one: I wanted to concentrate on Koran while I have all the time in the world, internalizing the grammar structures and pounding the vocab with reading and listening, to get ahead. I have to come back to Mandarin anyway. Secondly, I never had taken any break in Chinese since 2015, and most of us have read stuff about how taking a short break can enhance your studies and let things marinate and settle. So I figured it's a good time as any.

I am still in China for now, so I can't "hide" from the language, nor was that my intention. I simply did not do any focused studying or review in these three weeks. But I do allow the language to "come to me". I feel this maybe helpful: my brain was getting so cluttered with vocab and structures, that it was starting to stilt my language since I wanted to use words and patterns rarely used in spoken language. So these 20 days or so I have let the language come to me, whatever people say to me, I pay attention to. I believe this will help further strengthen what are the really important words and elements for everyday speech. I feel right now my biggest challenge is to be able to have a good diglossic system develop: to know what to use in spoken language (also what to say how and with whom when), and then to know what to use in written Chinese, which is usually quite a bit different. By being confident on what is strictly oral language, I can avoid using it in written. Anyway that is my idea.

I may start studying again this weekend, depends if I get through reading How to Study Korean grammar's first two Units. I will give my opinions on this site in the Korean log later. If not most certainly as soon as I am in United States territory, I will start reviewing my HSK books, and doing the drills and transformation exercises of the entire Tuttle Chinese Basic and Intermediate Spoken Chinese series. I feel my pronunciation needs a bit of strengthening, and I also want to reinforce my automatic response speed in everyday Chinese. I will start reading Chinese books once I get my e-reader.
0 x
"I can speak wonderfully and clearly in zero languages, and can also fluently embarrass myself in half a dozen others."

The End of Language learning: 10 / 10000

User avatar
outcast
Blue Belt
Posts: 585
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:41 pm
Location: Florida, USA
Languages: ~
FLUENCY
Native: ENglish, ESpañol
Advanced: -
High Basic: DEutsch (rust), FRançais (rust), ZH中文
Basic: -
~
ACQUIRING
Formally: KO한국말, ITaliano, HI हिन्दी
Dabbling: HRvatski, GW粵語
Dormant: POrtuguês
~
Plan to learn: I BETTER NOT GO HERE FOR NOW
~
x 679

Re: Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Chinese Galaxy

Postby outcast » Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:47 pm

Been a couple of weeks, the one before last Thursday when I had tons of things to prepare, and the one after, where the effects of the time difference proved more severe coming back to the USA than going to China (it probably didn't help I wasn't that thrilled about coming back here lol). I am already planning my next few months in China, maybe doing some part-time work while I study Chinese and Hindi, and then going to India. I have a quite a few work possibilities thanks to my Native English, but also my Chinese level that has impressed many in the mainland. I even have a job opportunity in a non-language related area. It would certainly beat working in the US where I get no immersion points.

So being so busy with packing and planning and traveling, and then readjusting, I had little time for much else and decided to use it to keep some study routine of Chinese and Korean. So posting here was the sacrifice. I didn't really do a ton of work but I had some nice review and did manage to put in quite a few hours reading the How to Study Korean lessons, up to about lesson 42. I'll need to review those quite a few times.

I am now more time adjusted and have also taken care of most of the many tasks and errands that had waiting for me upon returning, so I can get in a bit more of a routine now.

I have two German meetings next week, and I need to really do some major German reactivation... I am a little apprehensive given I know my German fluency may not be quite there (compared to two years ago when I last went to a meeting), but I am hoping a week with hours of listening, reading, and a thorough review of my notes on grammar and usage will make an impact.

I need to go back to my college to the Chinese department, they are all expecting me there at some point, so Chinese also is a priority the next week or so. I do want to impress, even though I know even now my level is good enough to impress them.

Then in two weeks I have French meetings, 2, and I have done nothing in French in many months... It is the L2 I have studied the longest, so I would assume I won't need a ton of reactivation time to get it up to some respectable level.

As a result of all this Korean will have to take a back seat the next two weeks, maybe only an hour or so a day, until the 2nd week of march, even though I do itch to advance more here.

I think a solution will have to be less time time online, including here in the forum, and no more tv watching. I have been lured by some tv shows last few days while I was resting around at home, and now I need to stop.

So a super busy polyglot fortnight ahead.
3 x
"I can speak wonderfully and clearly in zero languages, and can also fluently embarrass myself in half a dozen others."

The End of Language learning: 10 / 10000

User avatar
outcast
Blue Belt
Posts: 585
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:41 pm
Location: Florida, USA
Languages: ~
FLUENCY
Native: ENglish, ESpañol
Advanced: -
High Basic: DEutsch (rust), FRançais (rust), ZH中文
Basic: -
~
ACQUIRING
Formally: KO한국말, ITaliano, HI हिन्दी
Dabbling: HRvatski, GW粵語
Dormant: POrtuguês
~
Plan to learn: I BETTER NOT GO HERE FOR NOW
~
x 679

Re: Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Chinese Galaxy

Postby outcast » Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:45 am

咦,我正在用中文写东西吗? 大家能不能相信哪?

这就是我第一次用汉语用汉字在我们的语言论坛写篇帖子。我虽然觉得半年甚至一年前左右就能够用中文写写小篇什么, 但是那时候觉得水平差,没有信心写到,况且想尽管用中文写文章、帖子对我提高水平有一定的好处,我也知道能看汉字的人比较少,使用汉字写帖子会大大限制读者。当然我可以翻译成英语,可是不瞒你们说我常常特别懒惰,不太想把写的东西一词一词地翻译好。有可能连这篇也不会翻译,时间已经不早了。 这一切的结果是今天才开始写上中文帖子。 我知道这个态度挺孬哇!

前三天我只学习汉语没学其他语言,学习得蛮努力的。我看了几十篇文章、对话,小故事等。这个练习结束读得果然加快了。我还复习以前看好的文章,重新看它们能扩大词汇量,因为很多忘记过的词语和单词你又碰到。这对记忆力肯定算是个很有效的方法记住生词。除此之外,我继续听电视节目以及课文。对我说来改善中文听力可真不容易啊!需要把一个录音听完好几遍。汉语的词很短,还有声调,必须好好倾听。另外,有很多被方言影响的口音。这使中文听力一种挑战,进步不太迅速。

现在我回到了美国,语言环境显然不好了。不过有一些有利的事情说不定会帮我未来学习的安排。首先在我的家乡有两个中国朋友,都是去中国留学前认识的。其次我回来家之后就走运了,因为一位在中国住过的当地人刚刚组织了一个热爱中国于中文的Meetup小组,第一次聚会恰好是我回来美国后的第二个星期开的。在那儿我又认识了一个来自台湾的女大学生,我们答应了以后见面互相辅导。第三,我在中国还有不少朋友,通过微信可以随时和他们联系。

不幸的是我回到家的第八天手机全坏了。从我买到它以来 (是去中国前买的),这部手机一直给我添了无数的麻烦,很快地就感到了后悔挑出质量那么差的产品。住在中国的第四个月,那个东西显得出了大的毛病。我着急得就赶到商店去买一部崭新的,买了部华为手机。性能相当不错,我确实挺满意的…… 糟糕的是有一晚上我出去玩儿打了个的,到目的地时就把手机落在出租车里。后来我虽然找来找去怎么找也找不着。嗐,就这样好手机丢了,只得把旧手机修理修理。于是那段时间我喜欢说的口头禅是“新的不去旧的不来”! 但是修好之后旧手机还是老样子,性能马马虎虎的,直到”死亡“的那一刻。我终有一天我会复仇的,我还有它放在了抽屉里等时机进行复仇,可手机的麻烦并没有到此结束。我当然想买新手机,但是由于Best Buy推销员和手机公司 (AT&T)都服务愚笨无味所以还是买不了。这些问题用中文描述有点儿难。简单地说,我回国之后把SIM卡摆在手机里面,可是根本没有信号。我去了一趟商店,在那儿职员们说套餐和SIM卡不兼容。我很好奇地问这是为什么,听起来极为奇怪,他们是无法作答的,推荐只好改套餐。推销员许诺新套餐价格不会增加也不会出现奇怪的用费,结果我勉强让他们更新套餐。过两天我在网上一看账户就发现有意外的用费。我发了一场大火愤怒地打了电话给AT&T顾客服务号码。解释问题以后,那头的人说他真不晓得怎么解决问题,请我到商店去问问。你们猜猜商店里的职员建议我干啥呢? 给顾客服务打电话!!!去Best Buy时有打折活动但我由于我账户里有没符好的费(不对!),所以不能upgrade手机,售货员说账户问题解决好后就可以回去,还说明天后天还有活动。问题解决以后我又去一趟Best Buy, 另外一个售货员说活动都结束了!因为这一切我还是没有手机,跟谁都联系不了。写完这个故事我似乎发泄好了,反正我明天打算终于买到。

我短期学习中文的计划包含复习课文,但是我复习的速度要非常快,因为我现在在提高我阅读速度。听力时我也把录音加快20%。这样不但训练眼睛和耳朵更快地看懂听懂,而且可以在每一个钟头学习更多的东西。有手机的时候当然我会再能和所有朋友熟人联络了。我的汉语还差得比较远,听力、阅读、口语,写作都不够好,我的目标确实是很高的。目前进行日常的话在中国生活没有什么问题,我必须的是在政治、经济、科学、历史中多发展我的专门词汇。此外,在成语的方面用得仍然很少,是个让我特别苦恼的事情。可能会得实施极端的手段把这个问题处理好!

- - - - -

I really apologize I will not translate this text tonight as it is very late. I will translate it at some point in the next 48 hours. Given that my Chinese phrasing is not quite good yet, and that Google translate is less successful in doing clean translations of Asian languages, running this post through the translator will make the main idea decipherable but the details mostly garbled. Again, apologies for my laziness. :oops:
1 x
"I can speak wonderfully and clearly in zero languages, and can also fluently embarrass myself in half a dozen others."

The End of Language learning: 10 / 10000

User avatar
outcast
Blue Belt
Posts: 585
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:41 pm
Location: Florida, USA
Languages: ~
FLUENCY
Native: ENglish, ESpañol
Advanced: -
High Basic: DEutsch (rust), FRançais (rust), ZH中文
Basic: -
~
ACQUIRING
Formally: KO한국말, ITaliano, HI हिन्दी
Dabbling: HRvatski, GW粵語
Dormant: POrtuguês
~
Plan to learn: I BETTER NOT GO HERE FOR NOW
~
x 679

Re: Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Chinese Galaxy

Postby outcast » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:24 am

从今天起我每天一醒都会先把笔记本打开,接着上网找两篇文章看看。这些文章的语言会根据我那天不要学习的语言被选择的。比如,昨天我主要学习了汉语了,所以早上醒来后的读过的是分别一篇法语于德语文章。看完文章的时间15分钟以内。我希望通过这个活动每天都接触我已会说的语言。一天花一刻小时不算是繁重的任务,但却长期积累的效果一定会不小哇! 也可以说这个方法是滴水穿石的。读好东西之后我就开始学那天的主要语言,听着录音出去散步,回家还戴着耳机打扫一下。 扫完后吃早饭,然后把学习材料最难的内容看好几遍。下午我会安排两个钟头学韩语。其余的工夫再次学习主要语言了。在我目前的计划里,一般主要语言是汉语、德语,次要语言是韩语。有时法语也会是主要语言,大概一周一次这样子吧。今天学得蛮好的,我越复习东西感觉词汇越容易想出来。

说到词汇,我最近有了很深刻的启发。我今早把去中国留学后得到的一本课本看了一会儿,这本书是我到学校后被给的,所以真是好久没看过它。不过我当然还能回忆那时候读得非常吃力,尤其是阅读部分以及语法注释,因为那个困难我有了不少苦恼的晚上,觉睡不着的夜里。现在呢,那本书的阅读、注释都容易得很,两个小时就轻轻松松地读完了。更有趣的是我很多早已淡忘了的词语和单子,再看一遍就记得清楚了。大部分忘了的词汇不必用词典重新查, 而且现在汉语顺序不难了,句子比较复杂的注释不再算大问题了。这一切使我作出个客观的评论: 我的进步可大了!我这个一直在追寻收获完美的人,在学习语言的过程往往不愿转身,从已经获得成绩的山顶上俯瞰。 偶尔出现什么事儿让我往后面瞧一眼,那一刻我才能领略一下做到的工作。在这一段很短的时间我能从宏观角度来看我走的路,欣赏成绩,享受收获。然后呢?然后,我再转身往前走, 发现眼前的山势比后面的险峻多了......

但是我很爱登上更高的山呢!
0 x
"I can speak wonderfully and clearly in zero languages, and can also fluently embarrass myself in half a dozen others."

The End of Language learning: 10 / 10000

User avatar
outcast
Blue Belt
Posts: 585
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:41 pm
Location: Florida, USA
Languages: ~
FLUENCY
Native: ENglish, ESpañol
Advanced: -
High Basic: DEutsch (rust), FRançais (rust), ZH中文
Basic: -
~
ACQUIRING
Formally: KO한국말, ITaliano, HI हिन्दी
Dabbling: HRvatski, GW粵語
Dormant: POrtuguês
~
Plan to learn: I BETTER NOT GO HERE FOR NOW
~
x 679

Re: Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Chinese Galaxy

Postby outcast » Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:27 pm

从今天起我每天一醒都会先把笔记本打开,接着上网找两篇文章看看。这些文章的语言会根据我那天不要学习的语言被选择的。比如,昨天我主要学习了汉语了,所以早上醒来后的读过的是分别一篇法语于德语文章。看完文章的时间15分钟以内。我希望通过这个活动每天都接触我已会说的语言。一天花一刻小时不算是繁重的任务,但却长期积累的效果一定会不小哇! 也可以说这个方法是滴水穿石的。读好东西之后我就开始学那天的主要语言,听着录音出去散步,回家还戴着耳机打扫一下。 扫完后吃早饭,然后把学习材料最难的内容看好几遍。下午我会安排两个钟头学韩语。其余的工夫再次学习主要语言了。在我目前的计划里,一般主要语言是汉语、德语,次要语言是韩语。有时法语也会是主要语言,大概一周一次这样子吧。今天学得蛮好的,我越复习东西感觉词汇越容易想出来。


Starting today I shall wake up, turn on laptop, and read two articles. They will be chosen based on the languages I don't study that day. Example, yesterday's main language was Chinese, so it was one article in French and German, respectively. Time to read within 15 minutes. I hope through this activity to engage the languages daily. Spending 15 minutes each day is no onerous task, but long-term it can accumulate sizeable results. After reading I start my main language study proper, go for stroll listening to recordings, then back home sweep around with earphones still on. Then I have breakfast, and then study the hardest material of that day. Afternoons I will make 2 hours for Korean. And the rest of the day again the main language. Currently my programme is Chinese and German are main languages, Korean is secondary language. Sometimes French will also be main language, once a week probably. Today's studying was pretty good, the more I review things the more I feel vocabulary gets easier to remember.

说到词汇,我最近有了很深刻的启发。我今早把去中国留学后得到的一本课本看了一会儿,这本书是我到学校后被给的,所以真是好久没看过它。不过我当然还能回忆那时候读得非常吃力,尤其是阅读部分以及语法注释,因为那个困难我有了不少苦恼的晚上,觉睡不着的夜里。现在呢,那本书的阅读、注释都容易得很,两个小时就轻轻松松地读完了。更有趣的是我很多早已淡忘了的词语和单子,再看一遍就记得清楚了。大部分忘了的词汇不必用词典重新查, 而且现在汉语顺序不难了,句子比较复杂的注释不再算大问题了。这一切使我作出个客观的评论: 我的进步可大了!我这个一直在追寻收获完美的人,在学习语言的过程往往不愿转身,从已经获得成绩的山顶上俯瞰。 偶尔出现什么事儿让我往后面瞧一眼,那一刻我才能领略一下做到的工作。在这一段很短的时间我能从宏观角度来看我走的路,欣赏成绩,享受收获。然后呢?然后,我再转身往前走, 发现眼前的山势比后面的险峻多了......

但是我很爱登上更高的山呢!


Speaking of vocab, today I had a profound moment of clarity. I grabbed a book I studied soon after arriving in China and read it a while. So I had not read it for some time, but still recall how arduous a read it was, particularly reading sections and grammar notes. Due to those difficulties I had plenty of evenings of worry, and nights where I couldn't fall asleep. Now that book is so easy. I read it relaxed in two hours. Most fascinating is many words that had faded from memory came back clearly once I read through it. And most of them I did not need to look up again in dictionary. Chinese word order also is easier now, the grammar notes with complex sentences are not a big problem anymore. All this caused me to reach an objective comment: my progress has been huge. I'm a person always chasing after perfection, in this process I'm unwilling to turn around, and look down from the mountain of achievements already reaped. Occasionally though something happens that makes me take a look back, only at that moment can I savor and appreciate a bit the accomplishments. In these brief moments I can take a look at the big picture and the road traveled, appreciate the achievement, enjoy the rewards. And after this? After this I turn right around and go forward, and discover the terrain ahead is much steeper than the one behind.

But I love climbing ever higher mountains!
4 x
"I can speak wonderfully and clearly in zero languages, and can also fluently embarrass myself in half a dozen others."

The End of Language learning: 10 / 10000

User avatar
outcast
Blue Belt
Posts: 585
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:41 pm
Location: Florida, USA
Languages: ~
FLUENCY
Native: ENglish, ESpañol
Advanced: -
High Basic: DEutsch (rust), FRançais (rust), ZH中文
Basic: -
~
ACQUIRING
Formally: KO한국말, ITaliano, HI हिन्दी
Dabbling: HRvatski, GW粵語
Dormant: POrtuguês
~
Plan to learn: I BETTER NOT GO HERE FOR NOW
~
x 679

Re: Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Chinese Galaxy

Postby outcast » Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:36 am

~ 精读于泛读 ~

对于大部分学汉语的西方人说来,好像第一年、第二年的时候用中文任何的阅读材料读得都属于精度的任务了,老必用全注意力去念,但却用汉字的文章读得还是忒吃力, 既慢又苦。 这是为什么呢?不难得出个结论。那应该是因为在学习中文的过程当中,只有学会几千的汉字之后才能读得容易迅速,况且必须把每个新字的声调记住好,还得了解那个汉字的词性是什么。 有的时候一个字声调与词性不是只有一个的。 这一切也许在语言学界上是个无比的挑战。首先得辨认出字来,了解在出现的地方那个字有什么意义,接着记得怎么念它 (包括是不是得说轻声或者声调需要改声等),最后还要注意前后的字的声调怎么会影响你在念的字,比如要不要把第三声的字改到第二声等。 可以想象,在这些情况下,第一年学习中文的时候能采用“泛读”这个读法把中文文章读得顺利真不是个很可能的事儿了。不过为了扩大词汇量使用泛真是读特效的方法,不能用泛读增添词汇便让学习一门语言的过程更加复杂。说不定有的人例外,但是我认为不多。

所以呢,我第一二年学汉语时的阅读往往不是泛读,而是精读的活动。其实至今看书看得还是有点儿精读的感觉。好消息是我现在可以泛读比较难的东西。我虽然得坦白如果文章尤其长的话,我还需要铆勇气去看它,但是一般不再畏惧看汉字文章和文件了。 近来我能想起来的词语的能力提高得很多。依我看,之所以能多想出生词以及成语来,就是因为我每天都泛读一遍甚至几篇文章。我不得不承认进步挺不错的,然而我目前的水平显然比理想的还差得遥远。我很期待看中文看得又快又容易那一天。

我现在非常困倦,好不容易写完这篇,只好我立刻去睡吧。
Last edited by outcast on Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
0 x
"I can speak wonderfully and clearly in zero languages, and can also fluently embarrass myself in half a dozen others."

The End of Language learning: 10 / 10000

User avatar
outcast
Blue Belt
Posts: 585
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:41 pm
Location: Florida, USA
Languages: ~
FLUENCY
Native: ENglish, ESpañol
Advanced: -
High Basic: DEutsch (rust), FRançais (rust), ZH中文
Basic: -
~
ACQUIRING
Formally: KO한국말, ITaliano, HI हिन्दी
Dabbling: HRvatski, GW粵語
Dormant: POrtuguês
~
Plan to learn: I BETTER NOT GO HERE FOR NOW
~
x 679

Re: Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Chinese Galaxy

Postby outcast » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:12 pm

咦,我正在用中文写东西吗? 大家能不能相信哪?


Hey? I am writing things in Chinese? Can anyone one believe it?

这就是我第一次用汉语用汉字在我们的语言论坛写篇帖子。我虽然觉得半年甚至一年前左右就能够用中文写写小篇什么, 但是那时候觉得水平差,没有信心写到,况且想尽管用中文写文章、帖子对我提高水平有一定的好处,我也知道能看汉字的人比较少,使用汉字写帖子会大大限制读者。当然我可以翻译成英语,可是不瞒你们说我常常特别懒惰,不太想把写的东西一词一词地翻译好。有可能连这篇也不会翻译,时间已经不早了。 这一切的结果是今天才开始写上中文帖子。 我知道这个态度挺孬哇!


This is the first time I use Chinese characters to write a post on our language forum. Even though I feel I could have used Chinese to write something six months or even a year ago, I felt that the level was poor at that time, had no confidence to write down anything. Moreover I think even though to use Chinese to write articles or post has benefits to improve my level, I also know there are few people that can read characters, to use characters to write posts will greatly limit readers. I can of course translate into English, but I won't hide I am often really lazy, and I don't want to take a text and translate word for word. It's possible even this post won't be translated, as it is rather late. The result of it all is I start only today to use Chinese to write posts. I know this attitude is pretty bad!

前三天我只学习汉语没学其他语言,学习得蛮努力的。我看了几十篇文章、对话,小故事等。这个练习结束读得果然加快了。我还复习以前看好的文章,重新看它们能扩大词汇量,因为很多忘记过的词语和单词你又碰到。这对记忆力肯定算是个很有效的方法记住生词。除此之外,我继续听电视节目以及课文。对我说来改善中文听力可真不容易啊!需要把一个录音听完好几遍。汉语的词很短,还有声调,必须好好倾听。另外,有很多被方言影响的口音。这使中文听力一种挑战,进步不太迅速。


The last three days I only studied Chinese and not the other languages, it was quite a good effort. I read a tens of articles, dialogues, short stories and so on. This exercise ended [sic], sure enough my reading was faster. I also studied texts I had studied before, to read them anew can broaden vocabulary, because you again run into many forgotten words and phrases. This is a very effective method for the memory to remember new words. Aside from this, I continued to listen to television shows and class texts. In my opinion to better Chinese listening skills is truly not easy. One needs to listen several times to a recording. Chinese words are short and there are tones, one must listen intently. Besides, there are many accents influenced by dialectal speech, this makes listening to Chinese a challenge, progress is not very rapid.

现在我回到了美国,语言环境显然不好了。不过有一些有利的事情说不定会帮我未来学习的安排。首先在我的家乡有两个中国朋友,都是去中国留学前认识的。其次我回来家之后就走运了,因为一位在中国住过的当地人刚刚组织了一个热爱中国于中文的Meetup小组,第一次聚会恰好是我回来美国后的第二个星期开的。在那儿我又认识了一个来自台湾的女大学生,我们答应了以后见面互相辅导。第三,我在中国还有不少朋友,通过微信可以随时和他们联系。


I've come back to the USA now, the language surroundings are obviously not good anymore. However there are some advantageous things that can likely help my upcoming plans. First, I have two Chinese friends in my home town, both I met before going to China to study. Second, I was in luck after coming back, because a local who lived in China has just organized a meetup group for those who really love China and Chinese. The inaugural meeting was by chance two weeks after my return to the USA. There I made acquaintance with a female university student from Taiwan. We agreed to meet and mutually tutor in the future. Third, I still have many friends in China, I can at anytime get in touch with them through Wechat.

(Part 1 of text)
0 x
"I can speak wonderfully and clearly in zero languages, and can also fluently embarrass myself in half a dozen others."

The End of Language learning: 10 / 10000

User avatar
outcast
Blue Belt
Posts: 585
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:41 pm
Location: Florida, USA
Languages: ~
FLUENCY
Native: ENglish, ESpañol
Advanced: -
High Basic: DEutsch (rust), FRançais (rust), ZH中文
Basic: -
~
ACQUIRING
Formally: KO한국말, ITaliano, HI हिन्दी
Dabbling: HRvatski, GW粵語
Dormant: POrtuguês
~
Plan to learn: I BETTER NOT GO HERE FOR NOW
~
x 679

Re: Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Chinese Galaxy

Postby outcast » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:30 pm

outcast wrote:
咦,我正在用中文写东西吗? 大家能不能相信哪?


Hey? I am writing things in Chinese? Can anyone one believe it?

这就是我第一次用汉语用汉字在我们的语言论坛写篇帖子。我虽然觉得半年甚至一年前左右就能够用中文写写小篇什么, 但是那时候觉得水平差,没有信心写到,况且想尽管用中文写文章、帖子对我提高水平有一定的好处,我也知道能看汉字的人比较少,使用汉字写帖子会大大限制读者。当然我可以翻译成英语,可是不瞒你们说我常常特别懒惰,不太想把写的东西一词一词地翻译好。有可能连这篇也不会翻译,时间已经不早了。 这一切的结果是今天才开始写上中文帖子。 我知道这个态度挺孬哇!


This is the first time I use Chinese characters to write a post on our language forum. Even though I feel I could have used Chinese to write something six months or even a year ago, I felt that the level was poor at that time, had no confidence to write down anything. Moreover I think even though to use Chinese to write articles or post has benefits to improve my level, I also know there are few people that can read characters, to use characters to write posts will greatly limit readers. I can of course translate into English, but I won't hide I am often really lazy, and I don't want to take a text and translate word for word. It's possible even this post won't be translated, as it is rather late. The result of it all is I start only today to use Chinese to write posts. I know this attitude is pretty bad!

前三天我只学习汉语没学其他语言,学习得蛮努力的。我看了几十篇文章、对话,小故事等。这个练习结束读得果然加快了。我还复习以前看好的文章,重新看它们能扩大词汇量,因为很多忘记过的词语和单词你又碰到。这对记忆力肯定算是个很有效的方法记住生词。除此之外,我继续听电视节目以及课文。对我说来改善中文听力可真不容易啊!需要把一个录音听完好几遍。汉语的词很短,还有声调,必须好好倾听。另外,有很多被方言影响的口音。这使中文听力一种挑战,进步不太迅速。


The last three days I only studied Chinese and not the other languages, it was quite a good effort. I read a tens of articles, dialogues, short stories and so on. This exercise ended [sic], sure enough my reading was faster. I also studied texts I had studied before, to read them anew can broaden vocabulary, because you again run into many forgotten words and phrases. This is a very effective method for the memory to remember new words. Aside from this, I continued to listen to television shows and class texts. In my opinion to better Chinese listening skills is truly not easy. One needs to listen several times to a recording. Chinese words are short and there are tones, one must listen intently. Besides, there are many accents influenced by dialectal speech, this makes listening to Chinese a challenge, progress is not very rapid.

现在我回到了美国,语言环境显然不好了。不过有一些有利的事情说不定会帮我未来学习的安排。首先在我的家乡有两个中国朋友,都是去中国留学前认识的。其次我回来家之后就走运了,因为一位在中国住过的当地人刚刚组织了一个热爱中国于中文的Meetup小组,第一次聚会恰好是我回来美国后的第二个星期开的。在那儿我又认识了一个来自台湾的女大学生,我们答应了以后见面互相辅导。第三,我在中国还有不少朋友,通过微信可以随时和他们联系。


I've come back to the USA now, the language surroundings are obviously not good anymore. However there are some advantageous things that can likely help my upcoming plans. First, I have two Chinese friends in my home town, both I met before going to China to study. Second, I was in luck after coming back, because a local who lived in China has just organized a meetup group for those who really love China and Chinese. The inaugural meeting was by chance two weeks after my return to the USA. There I made acquaintance with a female university student from Taiwan. We agreed to meet and mutually tutor in the future. Third, I still have many friends in China, I can at anytime get in touch with them through Wechat.

(Part 1 of text)


- - - - -

One of the plus sides of re-reading what one wrote a few days ago (most likely part of the 24 hour rule of writing), is that one can notice the parts where one's writing has some serious shortcomings, and I don't mean just general learner's mistakes, but flaws in text flow, sentence structure, etc. Maybe specially when one reads native material most of the day and then looks again at one's 拙作 (clumsy poor writing), one can notice the differences in style. For me, besides the the fact that English-though processes still permeate my texts at times (interspersed with genuine Chinese sounding phrases), one of the most evident problems is I still have not mastered how to thread complex embedded clauses in my Chinese writing. While I know the grammar and the rules on complex adjective phrases (what in Western European languages would be relative clauses), the practice of putting that down and saying something like "one of the first books which was given to me for study within the first week after arriving in China", is hard.

Not ignoring the fact that even my English sentence above is probably neither ideally worded nor particularly smooth flowing, and that of course one cannot do word for word translations (Chinese for example do not have something equivalent to "one of the first...", and that always trips me up when I want to express a concept that does not exist in the L2).

Actually, even in my two native languages, I have a tendency to write extremely long, multi-clause sentences. In fact I am better now at breaking them up than in the past, but this problem has not been fully corrected. Therefore I often pass on this habit to the other languages.
0 x
"I can speak wonderfully and clearly in zero languages, and can also fluently embarrass myself in half a dozen others."

The End of Language learning: 10 / 10000


Return to “Language logs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests