Островная крепость Хммм

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blaurebell
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Languages: German (N), English (C2), Spanish (B2-C1), French (B2 passive), Italian (A2), Russian (Beginner)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3235
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Re: Xmmm's Russian log

Postby blaurebell » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:38 pm

Xmmm wrote:This seems to indicate that it's roughly four times harder to acquire vocabulary in Russian than it is in Italian. Mostly this is due to cognates but I think it also has to do with the fact that 90% of Russian verbs are six syllables long and start with the letter п.


Nooooooooo! :lol:

I think it helps to learn prefixes. I also notice that the longer I keep going with Russian the more it becomes obvious how words relate to each other and I get better at guessing the meaning of related words. I wonder whether there might be an increasing returns thing happening with Russian because of an astounding number of related but slightly different words. The more words you learn the easier it is to learn even more?
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: 13 / 45 Modern Russian 1
: 64 / 100 Дэвид Эддингс - Обретение чуда
: 5787 / 35000 LWT Known

: 7124 / 10000 French Pages
: 31 / 150 French native audio
: 110 / 150 peninsular Spanish audio

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neofight78
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Language Log: viewtopic.php?t=833
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Re: Xmmm's Russian log

Postby neofight78 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:08 pm

Absolutely, even if you don't consciously study roots, prefixes, and suffixes (i.e. like me), as you learn more and more words your brain will naturally start picking out the patterns, and it becomes easier to guess the meaning of and learn new words.

That still doesn't mean it's not a massive mountain to climb though... :cry:
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Xmmm
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Re: Xmmm's Russian log

Postby Xmmm » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:17 pm

Russian:

I'm two-thirds done with The Head of Professor Dowell. I've also started Anna Karenina. I gave up on Azazel because it turns out the audio book I have access to is abridged.

I burned out on Leningrad 46. It's a terrific show, but I don't like watching things a second or third time. I've tried some other shows, including One Against All and they really are not very good.

Italian:

Almost half done with The Desert of the Tartars and really enjoying it. I'm also reading Anna Karenina in Italian, where it is sadly easier for me than in Russian.

Turkish:

I can't make any progress in this language. I simply don't have the time. In this whole first quarter I could only come up with 22 hours to study Turkish. That's not enough to make any headway. Unfortunately, I've become absolutely hooked on Vatanim Sensin so I'm now doomed to watch Turkish TV I don't understand until 2020 or whenever I can check Russian off as being 'done'.






Courses
ru: Glossika (GSR 1 -- 52/104), Learn Russian RT (12/100)
it: Language Transfer (16/45)
tr: Language Transfer (16/44)
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Xmmm
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Re: Xmmm's Russian log

Postby Xmmm » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:19 pm

Russian:

Ugh. I'm tried to read анна каренина but am finding it tedious. I know Dostoyevsky's opinion
of Tolstoy was not particularly high and as a Dostoyevsky fan it rubbed off on me. The book
is certainly readable ... just not finding the story very interesting.

So I started reading Человек в высоком замке instead, which is a nice change ... but I don't
have audio for it. I don't want to fall back into the trap of silent reading. Maybe I should
read it out loud. Lots of great new vocabulary, though, like Гексаграмма and Тысячелистник.

More importantly, I've crossed the halfway point on my march to the mythical number of 1760,
where I will magically have C1 powers in Russian. The problem is that, as of right now, my
skills are really skewed. Reading is strong, everything else is trailing behind.

So ... reading is going to go on the back burner for a while as I take a shotgun approach to
fixing my other skills. I've added Modern Russian and RussianPod101 (using the Ari's Chinesepod
method in its basic form) to LearnRussianRT for course work.

I guess all these courses will take 400 hours, which is going to make it hard for me to reach my
reading targets. So I will have to read faster or something. :)


Italian:

The Desert of the Tartars is a highbrow book and, as such, is an acquired taste.
Having said that, it's a really good highbrow book, much better than many that are more
famous. I'm winding down and only have about five chapters left and will be sad when
it's over. I'm thinking of reading Il giardino dei Finzi-Contini next.

I tried watching an episode of Don Matteo. Just like Un Passo dal Cielo,
it reminded me a lot of Quincy (US show from the 1980s). Some fish out of water with
genius powers solves murders that baffle the detectives, and there are subplots that
are comical in a cutesy way. I can't take it. Il Commissario Montalbano still seems like
the best TV option.







Courses
ru: Glossika (GSR 1 -- 56/104)
Learn Russian RT (12/100)
Modern Russian (2/36)
Ari's Chinesepod Method for Russian (5/395)

it: Language Transfer (18/45)
tr: Language Transfer (16/44)
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blaurebell
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Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3235
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Re: Xmmm's Russian log

Postby blaurebell » Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:12 am

Xmmm wrote:The problem is that, as of right now, my
skills are really skewed. Reading is strong, everything else is trailing behind.


That's actually how I like to have it, because I don't really acquire vocabulary from listening. It's important that I have tons of vocabulary before I start listening, because this way I know that anything I don't understand will be my listening comprehension and not a vocabulary problem. In French I clocked around 320h of reading before I began to work on my listening skills. Since then I've done 210h worth of video and audio and it only took me 2 seasons of series to get to about 95% understanding. I always start with at least 150h of dubs of action series, then move on to a few native series (150h) and finally watch a whole bunch of movies (150h). After about 3 Super Challenges worth of audio my listening comprehension tends to be pretty solid.

I guess if you didn't listen to unknown words while reading in Russian you'll have a problem with the stress, so I'd suppose you'd need some Listening Reading first? My Dad says that ночной дозор is a very good choice for this purpose, because it has up to date language usage and should therefore match what you find in native series. The audiobooks are on youtube and I find the speaker alright. The background music gets a little annoying sometimes, but otherwise I find it pretty entertaining. LR the whole trilogy would probably be a good start, followed by dubs, native series and movies.

Modern Russian is pretty solid and fantastic. After 6 chapters I estimate that it takes about 100-150h to finish. Personally I find RussianPod a waste of time though, it's so unbearably slow and contains so much unnecessary waffle! I would replace that with a good grammar book with exercises myself. Most Russian grammars in English are really quite advanced though, so something to add after finishing Modern Russian.
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: 13 / 45 Modern Russian 1
: 64 / 100 Дэвид Эддингс - Обретение чуда
: 5787 / 35000 LWT Known

: 7124 / 10000 French Pages
: 31 / 150 French native audio
: 110 / 150 peninsular Spanish audio

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Xmmm
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Posts: 240
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Re: Xmmm's Russian log

Postby Xmmm » Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:06 pm

blaurebell wrote:
Xmmm wrote:The problem is that, as of right now, my
skills are really skewed. Reading is strong, everything else is trailing behind.


That's actually how I like to have it, because I don't really acquire vocabulary from listening. It's important that I have tons of vocabulary before I start listening, because this way I know that anything I don't understand will be my listening comprehension and not a vocabulary problem. In French I clocked around 320h of reading before I began to work on my listening skills. Since then I've done 210h worth of video and audio and it only took me 2 seasons of series to get to about 95% understanding. I always start with at least 150h of dubs of action series, then move on to a few native series (150h) and finally watch a whole bunch of movies (150h). After about 3 Super Challenges worth of audio my listening comprehension tends to be pretty solid.

I guess if you didn't listen to unknown words while reading in Russian you'll have a problem with the stress, so I'd suppose you'd need some Listening Reading first? My Dad says that ночной дозор is a very good choice for this purpose, because it has up to date language usage and should therefore match what you find in native series. The audiobooks are on youtube and I find the speaker alright. The background music gets a little annoying sometimes, but otherwise I find it pretty entertaining. LR the whole trilogy would probably be a good start, followed by dubs, native series and movies.

Modern Russian is pretty solid and fantastic. After 6 chapters I estimate that it takes about 100-150h to finish. Personally I find RussianPod a waste of time though, it's so unbearably slow and contains so much unnecessary waffle! I would replace that with a good grammar book with exercises myself. Most Russian grammars in English are really quite advanced though, so something to add after finishing Modern Russian.


Thanks for the suggestion about ночной дозор. I will try it out when I finish Человек в высоком замке.

As for RussianPod, I agree with you about it being a waste of time when used as directed. But I will be using it according to "Ari's Chinesepod" method as documented on the HTLAL board. So, I don't plan to do the lessons at all. I will read the dialog transcript, add unknown words to memrise, listen to just the dialog twenty times until I can shadow it, then throw the dialog mp3 onto a 'completed' playlist and listen to it passively one hundred or two hundred more times.

Whether that method works or not, I don't know ... but that particular thread was highly recommended and the method was referred to later outside of the thread many times. It seems like a good way to internalize basic, common conversation. I guess I'll find out if it is. :)
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neofight78
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Re: Xmmm's Russian log

Postby neofight78 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:47 pm

Xmmm wrote:As for RussianPod, I agree with you about it being a waste of time when used as directed. But I will be using it according to "Ari's Chinesepod" method as documented on the HTLAL board. So, I don't plan to do the lessons at all. I will read the dialog transcript, add unknown words to memrise, listen to just the dialog twenty times until I can shadow it, then throw the dialog mp3 onto a 'completed' playlist and listen to it passively one hundred or two hundred more times.

Whether that method works or not, I don't know ... but that particular thread was highly recommended and the method was referred to later outside of the thread many times. It seems like a good way to internalize basic, common conversation. I guess I'll find out if it is. :)


I use a similarish approach to my intensive reading with LingQ. For me the immediate benefit of such an approach is in both reading and listening comprehension. Internalisation does occur to some extent, but how that transfers into output ability I'm not sure. I wouldn't be surprised if it worked well, it's just that I've always actively worked on output as well. I'll be interested to hear how it goes. I say all of this without having seen the actual RussianPod material though, that could be a factor too.
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Xmmm
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Re: Островная крепость Хммм

Postby Xmmm » Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:27 am

Russian (Start: 1 September 2015)
Current self-assessed levels: reading ~B1+, listening ~A2+, speaking ~A2, writing ~A2



: 884 / 1760 Projected Hours to S3
: 15028 / 50000 Words Known
: 1536672 / 5000000 Words Read
: 3 / 36 Modern Russian
: 60 / 300 Glossika
: 6 / 395 RussianPod
: 12 / 100 Learn Russian RT


Italian (Start: 15 December 2016)
Current self-assessed levels: reading ~A2, listening ~A1, speaking ~A0, writing ~A1


: 57 / 960 Projected Hours to S3
: 5520 / 50000 Words Known
: 143327 / 2500000 Words Read
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Xmmm
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Re: Островная крепость Хммм

Postby Xmmm » Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:52 am

Russian (Start: 1 September 2015)

Watching: Семнадцать мгновений весны
Reading: Человек в высоком замке


: 894 / 1760 Projected Hours to S3
: 15253 / 50000 Words Known
: 1546764 / 5000000 Words Read
: 4 / 36 Modern Russian
: 60 / 300 Glossika
: 8 / 395 RussianPod
: 12 / 100 Learn Russian RT


Italian (Start: 15 December 2016)

Watching: Il commissario Montalbano (#5)
Reading: Il deserto dei Tartari


: 62 / 960 Projected Hours to S3
: 5708 / 50000 Words Known
: 149475 / 2500000 Words Read
: 25 / 45 Language Transfer
1 x

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Xmmm
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Posts: 240
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:19 am
Location: США
Languages: English (N), Russian (intermediate), Italian (beginner)
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Re: Островная крепость Хммм

Postby Xmmm » Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:25 pm

Took a break from reading to focus on making some progress in Modern Russian and Language Transfer Italian and to watch some TV.

For some reason, I found the dialogue in Красная Королева very easy to understand. My listening comprehension was about 50%,
which would be a record for me. The actors speak in full sentences, with no slang, no allusions or metaphors, etc. Maybe if I were
a native Russian speaker I would think "this dialogue is so wooden" but for a Russian learner it's a real treat.

Чистая проба has the typical corrupt cop element, but at least the premise is unusual. It's about an ecologist investigating
gold mining companies in Siberia. My listening comprehension on this one was down at the usual 25 percent (lots of talk about labs,
samples, acids, brakepads). It bugs me that English subtitles are not removable on this show.

I enjoyed Il commissario DeLuca and Il commissario Nardone a lot. Considering that they are all murder mystery shows involving cops,
they're very different from Il commissario Montalbano.



Russian (Start: 1 September 2015)

Watching: Красная Королева (#1), Чистая проба (#1)
Reading: Человек в высоком замке


: 901 / 1760 Projected Hours to S3
: 15316 / 50000 Words Known
: 1551087 / 5000000 Words Read
: 6 / 36 Modern Russian
: 61 / 300 Glossika
: 10 / 395 RussianPod
: 12 / 100 Learn Russian RT


Italian (Start: 15 December 2016)

Watching: Il commissario DeLuca (#1), Il commissario Nardone (#1)
Reading: Il deserto dei Tartari


: 66 / 960 Projected Hours to S3
: 5809 / 50000 Words Known
: 153343 / 2500000 Words Read
: 35 / 45 Language Transfer
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