Kraemder's attempt at JLPT N1 (Japanese)

Continue or start your personal language log here, including logs for challenge participants
kraemder
Green Belt
Posts: 323
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:10 am
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Languages: English (N)
Japanese (JLPT N2)
German (read several books)
Spanish (read a couple books)
Korean (studying for about a year semi seriously)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1204
x 498

Re: Kraemder's attempt at JLPT N2 (Japanese)

Postby kraemder » Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:58 am

It's nice knowing I'm not the only one who has these issues. And I guess it doesn't go away really it just maybe happens less. I went to McDonald's today and tried to order the godly Mega Mac set. The girl looked at me funny and said Mac set? I repeated it a couple of times. She turned her head like I wasn't speaking Japanese. I glanced at the menu... and it had changed. They no longer offered the set. It was a temporary special if hamburger wonderfullness. I then said they sold it just yesterday but it's not on the menu now. She stopped misunderstanding me (deliberately I think) and apologized that they changed the menu. I thanked her and went somewhere else. Lady, why did you have make me feel stupid and look at me like I had grown a second head? You know how people turn their heads and exaggerate a perplexed expression? Ugh. Of course, I also told myself I would stop eating McDonald's everyday when they got rid of that special. I got a slightly more healthy 牛丼 instead.

A word came up on the vocab list from Shaman Clan.

あっけらかん

と-adverb
quite indifferent, looking blank, looking as though one has nothing at all to do with what is going on

I think this describes many Japanese people very well with respect to foreigners. It applies to many people in my sharehouse who want to learn English and live here to be able to interact with foreigners. It also applies to many Japanese people in stores whose job is to provide me with customer service. Not all of them. But enough of them that it gets frustrating. Why Japanese people?
1 x

Sayonaroo
Green Belt
Posts: 256
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:13 am
Languages: English(N), Japanese -fluent?, Korean - advanced?, Spanish (b1?)
Language Log: http://choronghi.wordpress.com
x 319
Contact:

Re: Kraemder's attempt at JLPT N2 (Japanese)

Postby Sayonaroo » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:11 pm

kraemder wrote:It happened again. The McDonald's lady stumped me. Actually, rather than say lady I should say girl. I think she in high school or just out of high school. So she was just a kid. She pointed at the menu and said something that wasn't but resembled かみあう. It seemed like would you like to buy something else since she was all gesturing at the menu. Me, not knowing what she said and wanting to learn asked her what she said and what she meant. She had her manager help and he just asked me 以上ですか? so I asked her if that was the same thing as what she asked me. She then pulled the old Japanese routine of staring at me like I'm an alien and she will not be talking to me anymore. They teach students to do this in school when they don't know the answer or so I've heard. From my point of it's the rudest thing she could have done and it actually hurt my feelings. Even though I know she just wasn't sure what to say or how to explain it. This is a difference in cultures that's hard for me to deal with. I still don't know what the heck she said but if a McDonald's person gestures at the menu I'll just say 以上です!and I'm sure this will make them happy. Probably. I have no idea what else to do or how to deal with it. I think a foreigner asking what something means is the worst possible thing a foreigner can say to a Japanese person. Unless that person speaks English. Then it's fine and they'll gladly explain in English or try to.


So I've never been to Japan and I'm just a fellow Japanese learner but I think she said kashikomarimashita SINCE that's the only k-- sounding thing that comes to mind but then based on your description maybe she said something else... here's a conto with that phrase in it if memory serves me correctly ( can't watch it to confirm it right now... but i saw this a long time ago ) . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXD37DUkxt0
0 x

kraemder
Green Belt
Posts: 323
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:10 am
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Languages: English (N)
Japanese (JLPT N2)
German (read several books)
Spanish (read a couple books)
Korean (studying for about a year semi seriously)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1204
x 498

Re: Kraemder's attempt at JLPT N2 (Japanese)

Postby kraemder » Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:02 am

So I've never been to Japan and I'm just a fellow Japanese learner but I think she said kashikomarimashita SINCE that's the only k-- sounding thing that comes to mind but then based on your description maybe she said something else... here's a conto with that phrase in it if memory serves me correctly ( can't watch it to confirm it right now... but i saw this a long time ago ) . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXD37DUkxt0


You might be right. The sound seems prettty close. But I do know that word and I would expect to have understood that. I'll keep it in mind for next time.
0 x

DCDC
White Belt
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:20 pm
Languages: .
x 68

Re: Kraemder's attempt at JLPT N2 (Japanese)

Postby DCDC » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:16 am

Sizen wrote:
kraemder wrote:Well I just hope I don't pass the N1 and go to McDonald's the same day I get the news and have to post that I now have an N1 certificate but I still had to just say yes to the cashier when he paused without catching what he actually said.

Not to be a bummer or anything, but just a couple months before passing the N1, I went to buy some books in a store and looked like an idiot when I couldn't hear what the cashier was asking me. You'd think I'd be able to understand when I'm being asked if I need a plastic bag... These things just sort of happen, though. It's frustrating, but with time, it goes away. Sometimes it takes longer than expected, though, especially with languages like Japanese. Hang in there.

Oh god, that happened to me once when I was in Japan (I wasn't anywhere close to N1 though). I found I book I've wanted for a long time and decided to buy it and then the bookshop lady said something in Japanese and I didn't understand it Then she looked at me and said (also in Japanese, obviously) "uh, you know this book is in Japanese, right?" 超embarassing.
3 x

kraemder
Green Belt
Posts: 323
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:10 am
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Languages: English (N)
Japanese (JLPT N2)
German (read several books)
Spanish (read a couple books)
Korean (studying for about a year semi seriously)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1204
x 498

Re: Kraemder's attempt at JLPT N2 (Japanese)

Postby kraemder » Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:31 am

I'm always paranoid they're thinking that when I buy books haha. I'm just self conscious about my Japanese I think. They never have though. And my paranoia is going away little by little as I get better. But I'm all ready to declare, "Shut up! This book is easier to understand than your crappy Japanese!" Real mature right?
1 x

kraemder
Green Belt
Posts: 323
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:10 am
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Languages: English (N)
Japanese (JLPT N2)
German (read several books)
Spanish (read a couple books)
Korean (studying for about a year semi seriously)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1204
x 498

Re: Kraemder's attempt at JLPT N2 (Japanese)

Postby kraemder » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:01 am

I've completed through chapter 13 in the 新完全マスター文法N1 book. I'm entering every problem into Anki so I'm getting plenty of review. I'm pretty happy because I have every confidence that I will finish the book by the time they offer the test this summer. Probably. I'll definitely do the main 20 chapters that cover the most important grammar points and have the in depth explanations. They have some more problems after that covers more material but it's not as in depth and not as important I don't think. I just signed up for the N1 test this morning. My plan is to do the N1 practice exam from the website after I've completed through chapter 20 in my grammar textbook. Of course I'd like to do it now but I don't have more practice exams and I think it's a little premature to do until I've completed the grammar. I'd really like to just plow through the last few chapters but I've tried moving onto the next chapter right after completing one chapter and the reviews hurt. A lot. So I will wait a couple days. I do have Anki setup to be a little aggressive at first since I'm learning this on my own just using Anki and not in a classroom where it's taught - which makes the additional reviews that much worse.

騎士団長殺し is going well. I'm on the first book.. page 411 or chapter 25. It's nice reading literature and understanding it - especially when you consider Japanese people have problems getting through his novels. But listening to the news and taking part in native conversation is still hit and miss. I hope to do well on the N1 exam but it wouldn't surprise me if I don't get significantly better at Japanese than my current level - able to read books while using a dictionary (less and less) and enjoy movies/anime, but always struggling on and off when speaking with natives. The news should get better but all the place names and people's name are a killer for me. With Spanish and other european languages, even if the names are different in different languages, you still know it's a name you're hearing mostly and if it's a guy's name or a girl's name. Japanese names kick my butt. I am adding the names I read in books to Anki too so it will get better slowly but it really hurts.
0 x

kraemder
Green Belt
Posts: 323
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:10 am
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Languages: English (N)
Japanese (JLPT N2)
German (read several books)
Spanish (read a couple books)
Korean (studying for about a year semi seriously)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1204
x 498

Re: Kraemder's attempt at JLPT N2 (Japanese)

Postby kraemder » Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:54 am

When I went to McDonald's today the lady did extra gestures as she spoke. It find it really insulting. I would understand if I were speaking English to her and she couldn't reply in English - then using gestures would make a lot of sense. But I'm speaking Japanese to her. I wondered if I were just being overly sensitive. I asked a friend from Belgian how he felt about this. He said when they start gesturing he stops speaking Japanese and switches to English. Even if the manager gets called over to help, who also can't speak English, he doesn't relent. You would think store people would be a little more sensitive to customer's feelings and wanting to be treated normally but a lot of people just aren't. It's not just them. At my share house, Japanese people whom I've known for a while will sometimes stare at me and react funny to me. This happened not long ago when I was drinking a yogurt drink. I had just finished a workout and drank a 1 liter carton down with my meal. It was really filling - the yogurt drink is kind of a meal in itself and I had a large bento to go with it. A Japanese person apparently can't drink that much of a dairy product. They seemed to think I was going to get diarrhea or something. I've never gotten diarrhea from dairy products (unless they were past their expiration date or left out of the fridge). It seems Japanese people are all lactose intolerant. It makes you wonder why they sell milk at the grocery store - but it does explain why the largest size is just a 1 liter carton. Which apparently is way too much for one person to drink at once.
0 x

tuckamore
Orange Belt
Posts: 138
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2016 6:41 pm
Languages: English (N), Japanese (intermediate), French (intermediate), Thai (beginner), Swahili (beginner)
x 299

Re: Kraemder's attempt at JLPT N2 (Japanese)

Postby tuckamore » Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:49 am

Sizen wrote:
kraemder wrote:Well I just hope I don't pass the N1 and go to McDonald's the same day I get the news and have to post that I now have an N1 certificate but I still had to just say yes to the cashier when he paused without catching what he actually said.

Not to be a bummer or anything, but just a couple months before passing the N1, I went to buy some books in a store and looked like an idiot when I couldn't hear what the cashier was asking me. You'd think I'd be able to understand when I'm being asked if I need a plastic bag... These things just sort of happen, though. It's frustrating, but with time, it goes away. Sometimes it takes longer than expected, though, especially with languages like Japanese. Hang in there.

Seems issues in these exact scenarios also pop up in reverse. I have a Japanese friend with superb listening and conversational skills who went to university in the US and she said two scenarios stumped her the most when she arrived. 1. At fast food restaurants when they would ask: ‘for here or to go?’ She said that when she looked puzzled, asked to repeat, said ‘what’, etc., they’d repeat it at the same lightening bolt speed and so she would remain stumped. When she told me this, I thought, how true — the spoken version of ’for here or to go’ in a fast food context doesn’t sound any thing like ‘for’, ‘here’, ‘or’, ‘to’, or ‘go’. Even for me, a native English speaker, I think I rely on intonation and context when I answer this question. 2. At the grocery store when they would ask: ‘paper or plastic?’ In this case, she understood the words but she had no idea what they were talking about. When she would say 'sorry?', they would only repeat 'paper or plastic'. She thought they were asking her how she wanted to pay — cash (paper) or credit (plastic).
3 x
: 10000 / 10000 10000 Japanese pages
: 1510 / 10000 the next 10000 Japanese pages

dampingwire
Blue Belt
Posts: 559
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:11 pm
Location: Abingdon, UK
Languages: Italian (N), English (N), French (poor, not studying), Japanese (studying, JLPT N3)
x 609

Re: Kraemder's attempt at JLPT N2 (Japanese)

Postby dampingwire » Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:07 pm

tuckamore wrote: At the grocery store when they would ask: ‘paper or plastic?’ In this case, she understood the words but she had no idea what they were talking about. When she would say 'sorry?', they would only repeat 'paper or plastic'. She thought they were asking her how she wanted to pay — cash (paper) or credit (plastic).


To be honest, I'd've thought the same as she did! Then again shops don't have paper bags much, if at all, here (assuming that "bags" is what they were talking about!).
0 x
新完全マスター N2聴解 : 94 / 103新完全マスター N2読解 : 99 / 177
新完全マスター N2文法 : 197 / 197TY Comp. German : 0 / 389

kraemder
Green Belt
Posts: 323
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:10 am
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Languages: English (N)
Japanese (JLPT N2)
German (read several books)
Spanish (read a couple books)
Korean (studying for about a year semi seriously)
Language Log: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1204
x 498

Re: Kraemder's attempt at JLPT N2 (Japanese)

Postby kraemder » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:31 am

Yeah they used to say paper or plastic a lot more but plastic is cheaper so they're just taking the option away I guess. Except California where they care more about the environment - but then they're taking the option away by making plastic illegal. But I agree it's a confusing question.

I started hanging out with a girl who just arrived from Korea. I'm very impressed with her Japanese - she has a really large vocabulary because Korean borrows from Chinese the same way Japanese does so 漢語 or words of Chinese origin are really easy for her. She literally learns vocabulary just watching jdramas. Her English is better than most Japanese people I know too - and Koreans seem to pronounce English really well.

I'll be interested in her progress learning Japanese as compared to the hell that I went through. She says her weak points are grammar and kanji. I can't speak for her grammar because I haven't heard her speak a lot yet but her kanji seems really weak. I think she knows maybe 100 or 200 kanji it's hard to say. They do not teach any kanji at all anymore in Korea as per what she told me.

So we go shopping a little. Everyone speaks to her exclusively. They don't talk to me. Even after I speak to them in Japanese. She's only been here a few days. Yes, she can understand them but I'm right there and I'm the one paying and I am speaking Japanese. Meh. I've heard about other westerners just getting fed up with japan because even after they learn Japanese they don't fit in and nobody will speak Japanese to them. (One store person just went off about how she tried to learn English but couldn't do it - to her. Like she was having a private conversation that I wasn't part of. )

People who know me have no issues speaking Japanese to me (usually) but it's everyone that doesn't know me that drives me nuts.
0 x


Return to “Language logs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests