Japanese:
I finished going through all the basic Hiragana and also just took a look at those additions like the two strokes and the circle as well as the combinations with ya, yu and yo. Since it is quite regular, I kind of remembered it already. I still confuse some characters or just don't remember how they are written when I test it that way, so I will take the next few days for that. Using this Kakitai app I mentioned in the resources post.
Since I want to start learning some vocab I will skip Katakana for now (also to not confuse those characters with the Hiragana) and start with some vocab, grammar and Kanjis. I have acess to a copy of Genki, which I heard might be a good start, so I check it out for starting. I also check all those websites I saved for later, whether there is something nice for beginners. Since one of my main reasons for learning the language is the script, I also want to dive into the Kanji study right away. I'm not quite sure how to start there, but I will find out.
French:
Like I said, I borrowed the first Asterix comic. I also started reading it. It's not that easy. I always tend to slow down to look up words, although I just wanted to read for pleasure here. To find a way back to the language. My aim here is to read 5 comic this year. And to learn those words I look up. I also want to practice some introducing myself (vocab and sentence structure). Because this would probably be one of those things that I might do, when I really meet someone who speaks French someday
Komma’s Log: Focus on French
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Weekly Update: March 6-13
Japanese:
I updated the Japanese Goals and resource post. I succeeded learning all Hiragana in two weeks as I planned. Today I tested myself using the Kakitai App, which asked the character for each Romaji syllable. Yes, I know, many resources tell you not to use Romaji, but this app just does a good job anyway. And I did all characters correctly. That certainly is not the end of learning Hiragana, but I think I will encounter them in my studies anyway. I will do some more listening and pronunciation practicing along the way and abandon the Romaji. With reading I am still quite slow, because with some similar characters I have to first search in my head for the right pronunciation. I guess that will be better with more studying as well.
I abandoned the Jalup next website as I was quite frustrated to not have a translation or whatever for the sentences. I took a short look into their Kanji deck, but they structured it from the easiest ones for writing to complexer ones and not in order of usefulness.
As for the next steps, I decided to work through the Genki book and workbook and Tim Kae's guide. I like to have multiple resources as sometimes they have other focus areas, explanation etc. Tim Kae's guide says there will be more everyday language included. I haven't started reading about what Genki offers. Of course I don't do all those parts with similar content with both guides, but maybe skip a part here or there. I primarily use the courses as a guide. As a beginner I really like to have a guide for the first steps.
My long-term goal is to read an easy book by the end of the year, though I haven't really looked for easy books that one can read after 6-8 months (suggestions very welcome!).
I also want to learn about 500 Kanji until the end of the year (~2 per day with daily study. I hope that is managable for me...). The first step will be 80 Kanji (I've read about this number as being grade 1 or so. Although, I'm not sure I will be studying exactly those suggested 80 Kanji, but I like to use that number as a milestone). With my 2 Kanji per day rythm I thought I set a time frame of 42 days (a buffer + it's the answer to everything ).
The first things I like to learn in languages (besides saying hello etc) is to introduce myself and talk about my hobbies or similar personal stuff. Since the vocab for that has some personal relevance it is probably easier to remember.
Since I use those two guides, I will probably start learning the Kanji they present me first. I'm not sure whether to also dive into Radicals or not. I am also not sure about whether to use Anki, paper flashcards or word lists. As I explained somewhere in my log, I do like the approach of Gabe Wyner, who uses very many and elaborate anki cards. It's quite time-consuming to set up the cards, but using his model deck one can create a bunch of cards at once. Also, taking time to do the cards is also a form of working with the material.
I updated the Japanese Goals and resource post. I succeeded learning all Hiragana in two weeks as I planned. Today I tested myself using the Kakitai App, which asked the character for each Romaji syllable. Yes, I know, many resources tell you not to use Romaji, but this app just does a good job anyway. And I did all characters correctly. That certainly is not the end of learning Hiragana, but I think I will encounter them in my studies anyway. I will do some more listening and pronunciation practicing along the way and abandon the Romaji. With reading I am still quite slow, because with some similar characters I have to first search in my head for the right pronunciation. I guess that will be better with more studying as well.
I abandoned the Jalup next website as I was quite frustrated to not have a translation or whatever for the sentences. I took a short look into their Kanji deck, but they structured it from the easiest ones for writing to complexer ones and not in order of usefulness.
As for the next steps, I decided to work through the Genki book and workbook and Tim Kae's guide. I like to have multiple resources as sometimes they have other focus areas, explanation etc. Tim Kae's guide says there will be more everyday language included. I haven't started reading about what Genki offers. Of course I don't do all those parts with similar content with both guides, but maybe skip a part here or there. I primarily use the courses as a guide. As a beginner I really like to have a guide for the first steps.
My long-term goal is to read an easy book by the end of the year, though I haven't really looked for easy books that one can read after 6-8 months (suggestions very welcome!).
I also want to learn about 500 Kanji until the end of the year (~2 per day with daily study. I hope that is managable for me...). The first step will be 80 Kanji (I've read about this number as being grade 1 or so. Although, I'm not sure I will be studying exactly those suggested 80 Kanji, but I like to use that number as a milestone). With my 2 Kanji per day rythm I thought I set a time frame of 42 days (a buffer + it's the answer to everything ).
The first things I like to learn in languages (besides saying hello etc) is to introduce myself and talk about my hobbies or similar personal stuff. Since the vocab for that has some personal relevance it is probably easier to remember.
Since I use those two guides, I will probably start learning the Kanji they present me first. I'm not sure whether to also dive into Radicals or not. I am also not sure about whether to use Anki, paper flashcards or word lists. As I explained somewhere in my log, I do like the approach of Gabe Wyner, who uses very many and elaborate anki cards. It's quite time-consuming to set up the cards, but using his model deck one can create a bunch of cards at once. Also, taking time to do the cards is also a form of working with the material.
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Midweek Update
Japanese:
I started with Genki and worked through the pre-lesson あいさつ ('Greetings'). I did not remember all of it, but a few. Genki starts with the use of Hiragana only in the first lessons, so I looked a bit into Kanji study and how to start this. However, I realized that it probably isn't a good way to just learn Kanji after Kanji, and also that it's not directly Kanji=word.
So I change my approach to just learning vocabulary and grammar and doing this using Kanji as well. Like when I discover a new word, I also learn the Kanji etc.
I also plan to take a look at the radicals since I like the idea of seeing them as building blocks like letters that form words. And like learning in other languages how a word is written, i learn how a word in Japanese consists of Kanji and those of radicals.
So I have to revise my Kanji goal and set a word goal or whatever. I think I will first just start with the first chapters of Genki to get an impression of what is realistic
For the revision/memorization of vocabulary and grammar I plan to use Anki (besides other material). It's probably more accurate to have the computer-Kanji than writing them down on cards to learn. I also do some writing practice, but writing it on a card will probably not be perfect and then I might learn something wrong. Also the use of sound and pictures and animation or whatnot is quite appealing, although probably very time-consuming.
That is why I try to set up an anki card-type that will create multiple cards, just like Gabe Wyner did. I could use his (you can find his demo cards free on is website), but honestly I don't really get it and instead of trying to understand it and maybe don't use all of it, I just make my own. It is not that hard to set up different cards with different content and let them all be created at once after typing in all I want to have.
I started with Genki and worked through the pre-lesson あいさつ ('Greetings'). I did not remember all of it, but a few. Genki starts with the use of Hiragana only in the first lessons, so I looked a bit into Kanji study and how to start this. However, I realized that it probably isn't a good way to just learn Kanji after Kanji, and also that it's not directly Kanji=word.
So I change my approach to just learning vocabulary and grammar and doing this using Kanji as well. Like when I discover a new word, I also learn the Kanji etc.
I also plan to take a look at the radicals since I like the idea of seeing them as building blocks like letters that form words. And like learning in other languages how a word is written, i learn how a word in Japanese consists of Kanji and those of radicals.
So I have to revise my Kanji goal and set a word goal or whatever. I think I will first just start with the first chapters of Genki to get an impression of what is realistic
For the revision/memorization of vocabulary and grammar I plan to use Anki (besides other material). It's probably more accurate to have the computer-Kanji than writing them down on cards to learn. I also do some writing practice, but writing it on a card will probably not be perfect and then I might learn something wrong. Also the use of sound and pictures and animation or whatnot is quite appealing, although probably very time-consuming.
That is why I try to set up an anki card-type that will create multiple cards, just like Gabe Wyner did. I could use his (you can find his demo cards free on is website), but honestly I don't really get it and instead of trying to understand it and maybe don't use all of it, I just make my own. It is not that hard to set up different cards with different content and let them all be created at once after typing in all I want to have.
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Re: Weekly Update: March 6-13
Komma wrote:I succeeded learning all Hiragana in two weeks as I planned.
Congratulations!
よくがんばりましたね。
Komma wrote:With reading I am still quite slow, because with some similar characters I have to first search in my head for the right pronunciation. I guess that will be better with more studying as well.
I promise this will become a non-issue, as long as you keep at it and use resources that use kana. The only mix-ups likely to persist for a while longer are knowing whether は is ha or wa and whether へ is e or he.
Komma wrote:Like when I discover a new word, I also learn the Kanji etc.
I also plan to take a look at the radicals since I like the idea of seeing them as building blocks like letters that form words.
There clearly is no ‘best’ way to study kanji, as so many leaners have succeeded with different approaches. In my case, even with hindsight, I’m not sure how I’d tackle them if I had to do it again: try something new? or repeat what I did the first time? But, if I were to take your approach and learn kanji as I come across them in vocabulary, I would definitely pair this with study of radicals. At the earlier stages, when kanji are generally simpler, composed of fewer components, and found in very common words, it might not seem necessary. But, as I got further along, I’d predict that it would be hard for me to distinguish between more complex kanji that only have small differences. However, having a good command of radicals, may reduce some of the extra effort needed to not mix up these kanji (and the words composed of these kanji). My point is that I think you plans for kanji are on the right track!
FYI for when you start katakana. Katakana is not hard. It is similar to hiragana in terms of effort to learn. However, reading fluency in katakana may be slower to come by than hiragana because you get less exposure to katakana.
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Re: Komma’s Log: A fresh start with a new language (JP)
@tuckamore:
Thank you for stopping by at my log
It is motivating to hear that my approach to Kanji is a good way. I guess for the start I just go through my two resources (Genki and Tae Kim's guide) and learn whatever they offer. Additionally I start with Radicals.
I guess using different approaches or trying them out when one doesn't work can't hurt As long as one does know the Kanji and words in the end, the way one got there doesn't matter, I guess. It is just a bit confusing for me as a complete beginner to know where to start. That's why I plan to just follow the courses in the beginning. It's my first language I try to tackle on my own. But it's fun as well. And I like learning at my own pace.
Thank you for stopping by at my log
It is motivating to hear that my approach to Kanji is a good way. I guess for the start I just go through my two resources (Genki and Tae Kim's guide) and learn whatever they offer. Additionally I start with Radicals.
I guess using different approaches or trying them out when one doesn't work can't hurt As long as one does know the Kanji and words in the end, the way one got there doesn't matter, I guess. It is just a bit confusing for me as a complete beginner to know where to start. That's why I plan to just follow the courses in the beginning. It's my first language I try to tackle on my own. But it's fun as well. And I like learning at my own pace.
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Re: Komma’s Log: A fresh start with a new language (JP)
two posts in one day
Japanese:
I actually started the first lesson in Genki today. I listened and read and wrote the dialogue in Hiragana. While doing that I did not only rely on the translation they give after the dialogue, but searched for the words for a better overview of the sentence structure (sadly I realized only later that they do have the vocabulary word for word on the next page but I now know how to search japanese online dictionaries ). I found out by myself, that you use か at the end of a sentence to indicate a question.
After the dialogue I listened and read the vocabulary list, which was quite nice. There were also things like suffixes explained with which I already made my first connections:
They listed the word えいご (English language), then the suffix ...-ご (...language) and a bit later the suffix ...じん (...people). I made the connection to えいじん (english people). I then checked jisho.org whether I was correct, which I was. That was a great learning experience. Although for language production I had to check right now again what the exact words were, but for understanding this was great.
After these two sections I went on with the grammar part. I only read through the first bit with xわは y です to learn about how to create some very basic sentence like "x is y" (with or without actually mentioning the x). (EDIT: thanks to aledda for pointing out that it is は. I'm just not used to typing japanese..)
I haven't started using any memorization tool other than writing down the dialogue with translation once, but I am still making up my mind about what to use and how and when and how often. At the moment I'm fine just reading about it. Which brings me to the next language-study related thing I did today:
"Fremdsprachenlernen mit System" - Hans P. Krings:
After I've read about neumanc mentioning this book, I had to get it as well, so I ordered it from the interlibrary loan (as my library didn't have it).
I have flipped through it a few days ago, read a page or two and thought "Oh, so many blabla about stuff that I already know". I mean, it really has a lot of pages (~575) and in the first few chapters he talks about stuff like "think about how much you actually need to learn" or "only sitting in a language class doesn't make you learn the language".
However, I gave it another try, and it actually does contain some interesting stuff as well. And it is probably unfair to say it is all blabla, when I just read a few pages
I guess I will read through it now that I found also some interesting bits and will write some thoughts and learnings I take away from it in my log.
What I got from it so far: The author really is into "Input, Input, Input". This is not new, many learners here in the forum are pro input. And still, I never actually listened. But now I also read a bit about his grammar aquisition part, in which he differentiates between grammar for understanding and grammar for production. And that one actually needs a lot less grammar knowledge to understand texts. So, if you only concentrate on that bit of grammar in the beginning and get lots of input, you need less time for grammar studies and have more time for getting input. And with input comes implicit grammar knowledge, a feeling for the language, and that makes it easier later on when you want to produce your own sentences.
I never thought about it like that. I always thought Input as being additionally to grammar studying.
Like I said, it's not really knew, but sometimes it takes time from 'heard of it' to 'realizing something'.
Japanese:
I actually started the first lesson in Genki today. I listened and read and wrote the dialogue in Hiragana. While doing that I did not only rely on the translation they give after the dialogue, but searched for the words for a better overview of the sentence structure (sadly I realized only later that they do have the vocabulary word for word on the next page but I now know how to search japanese online dictionaries ). I found out by myself, that you use か at the end of a sentence to indicate a question.
After the dialogue I listened and read the vocabulary list, which was quite nice. There were also things like suffixes explained with which I already made my first connections:
They listed the word えいご (English language), then the suffix ...-ご (...language) and a bit later the suffix ...じん (...people). I made the connection to えいじん (english people). I then checked jisho.org whether I was correct, which I was. That was a great learning experience. Although for language production I had to check right now again what the exact words were, but for understanding this was great.
After these two sections I went on with the grammar part. I only read through the first bit with x
I haven't started using any memorization tool other than writing down the dialogue with translation once, but I am still making up my mind about what to use and how and when and how often. At the moment I'm fine just reading about it. Which brings me to the next language-study related thing I did today:
"Fremdsprachenlernen mit System" - Hans P. Krings:
After I've read about neumanc mentioning this book, I had to get it as well, so I ordered it from the interlibrary loan (as my library didn't have it).
I have flipped through it a few days ago, read a page or two and thought "Oh, so many blabla about stuff that I already know". I mean, it really has a lot of pages (~575) and in the first few chapters he talks about stuff like "think about how much you actually need to learn" or "only sitting in a language class doesn't make you learn the language".
However, I gave it another try, and it actually does contain some interesting stuff as well. And it is probably unfair to say it is all blabla, when I just read a few pages
I guess I will read through it now that I found also some interesting bits and will write some thoughts and learnings I take away from it in my log.
What I got from it so far: The author really is into "Input, Input, Input". This is not new, many learners here in the forum are pro input. And still, I never actually listened. But now I also read a bit about his grammar aquisition part, in which he differentiates between grammar for understanding and grammar for production. And that one actually needs a lot less grammar knowledge to understand texts. So, if you only concentrate on that bit of grammar in the beginning and get lots of input, you need less time for grammar studies and have more time for getting input. And with input comes implicit grammar knowledge, a feeling for the language, and that makes it easier later on when you want to produce your own sentences.
I never thought about it like that. I always thought Input as being additionally to grammar studying.
Like I said, it's not really knew, but sometimes it takes time from 'heard of it' to 'realizing something'.
Last edited by Komma on Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Komma’s Log: A fresh start with a new language (JP)
Komma wrote:They listed the word えいご (English language), then the suffix ...-ご (...language) and a bit later the suffix ...じん (...people). I made the connection to えいじん (english people). I then checked jisho.org whether I was correct, which I was. That was a great learning experience. Although for language production I had to check right now again what the exact words were, but for understanding this was great.
Hate to burst your bubble, but a little warning may be in order. While えいじん does refer to English and/or British people, its use is somewhat limited. It may be used in some historical contexts, or in newspaper headlines, where shorter words are preferred (and even in these cases, えいこくじん might be more common), but in everyday conversation it will sound a bit quaint. The usual words are イギリスじん (for "British people", but can also be used to mean "English people" whenever the distinction is seen as unimportant) and イングランドじん (when you need to say specifically "English [as opposed to Scottish, Welsh or Irish] people").
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Re: Komma’s Log: A fresh start with a new language (JP)
@vonPeterhof:
thank you for this information! I would have probably realized it sometime during my studies, but then it might have been too late . At the moment I am only in a very very early stage of learning (and self-learning) Japanese. Without a teacher it is easier to make such mistakes. So, thank you very much for your hint!
Nonetheless, I still think it is good for motivation to have made such a connection myself. In the vocabulary list in Genki there is also イギリス for Britain. So I could have made that connection as well, if I had read on before making my own suggestions.
I'm glad to have posted it here, so I got corrected. Will do that with other creations of my own as well But at the moment I actually only want to understand Japanese and learn about culture, especially in the context of script development etc.
thank you for this information! I would have probably realized it sometime during my studies, but then it might have been too late . At the moment I am only in a very very early stage of learning (and self-learning) Japanese. Without a teacher it is easier to make such mistakes. So, thank you very much for your hint!
Nonetheless, I still think it is good for motivation to have made such a connection myself. In the vocabulary list in Genki there is also イギリス for Britain. So I could have made that connection as well, if I had read on before making my own suggestions.
I'm glad to have posted it here, so I got corrected. Will do that with other creations of my own as well But at the moment I actually only want to understand Japanese and learn about culture, especially in the context of script development etc.
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Re: Komma’s Log: A fresh start with a new language (JP)
Hi!
You're doing great!
I hope my commenting here doesn't bother you, but maybe it can help you.
There's a tricky thing with some syllables in Japanese: some of them (は, へ, を) change how you "say" them when they are used as particles.
I don't want to make the explanation confusing describing particles and when do you use which one, but I'm gonna show you how they change:
So, the structure "x is y" is actually "x は y です", because that "wa"* it's actually the particle は not just わ.
I know you may have learned this on your own sooner or later, but when they pointed it out for me it really helped me.
You're doing great!
I hope my commenting here doesn't bother you, but maybe it can help you.
Komma wrote:After these two sections I went on with the grammar part. I only read through the first bit with x わ y です to learn about how to create some very basic sentence like "x is y" (with or without actually mentioning the x).
There's a tricky thing with some syllables in Japanese: some of them (は, へ, を) change how you "say" them when they are used as particles.
I don't want to make the explanation confusing describing particles and when do you use which one, but I'm gonna show you how they change:
- は (usually pronounced like "ha"), when it's used as a particle sounds like わ ("wa")
- へ (usually pronounced like "he"), when it's used as a particle sounds like え ("e")
- を (usually pronounced like "wo"), when it's used as a particle sounds like お ("o")
So, the structure "x is y" is actually "x は y です", because that "wa"* it's actually the particle は not just わ.
I know you may have learned this on your own sooner or later, but when they pointed it out for me it really helped me.
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Re: Komma’s Log: A fresh start with a new language (JP)
@aledda:
Thank you for your note!
Actually I know that it is は, but I am not yet used to the typing stuff on a computer so I typed wa, which was then turned into わ without noticing...
If I had written it on paper I probably would have written it correctly.. maybe..
But thank you very much for pointing that out. I will take the time to check my writings again before posting in the future..
Thank you for your note!
Actually I know that it is は, but I am not yet used to the typing stuff on a computer so I typed wa, which was then turned into わ without noticing...
If I had written it on paper I probably would have written it correctly.. maybe..
But thank you very much for pointing that out. I will take the time to check my writings again before posting in the future..
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: Assimil French - passive
: Language Transfer
: Le petit Prince
: Grammaire progressive - intermédiaire
: Vocabulaire progressf - débutant
: Language Transfer
: Le petit Prince
: Grammaire progressive - intermédiaire
: Vocabulaire progressf - débutant
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