Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

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Jar-Ptitsa
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Jar-Ptitsa » Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:22 am

That piece looks more possible, although difficult as well.

Yes, in fact, 4 isn't necessary becuase you can see that there are 4 haha. It's only helpful if it changes in the middle, like a warning.

So you don't add key signatures at all? When I just looked, your piece changes flats and sharps a lot, so the key signature would change all the time.

I'd like to see more of your music!!!

With the transposing instruments, would the players have to adapt if the music isn't transposed? I don't really understand why some instruments transpose. Did you write the viola part in their clef?
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Jar-Ptitsa » Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:40 am

I will try to play your piece tomorrow, but it won't exactly be as composed because I can see that it's too difficult and also my hands are little so I can't play all the notes in some of the places (they require veyr large hands I think). I know that you saw my video when I played the piano some years ago, and I haven't improved, unfortunaetly, in effect probably worse :evil: it's my own fault becuase I don't practise the piano.
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:00 am

I do (or did) use key signatures with the clefs at the beginning of each line - there is in fact a sharp in the first piece, indicating that its basic tonality is e minor. But most composers would not write a sharp or flat again if a note was tied to the same note in the previous measure by a slur - I would write it as a help to the performer.

Violas (Bratsch auf Deutsch) are normally notated with a C clef that points to the third line (but with a G clef for very high parts - like the violins). You can see the same clef in music for cellos and bassoons, but pointing at the second line from the top. If your were in the philosophical mood you could say that using different clefs also changes where you see a note with a certain pitch. The difference is that transposing parts also seemingly change the tonality of a piece (like when a piece in C major gets two sharps in the clarinet part).

The reason that some instruments transpose is that they occurred in several sizes (clarinets today mostly are B flat, but sometimes A, and there are smaller clarinets in E flat). By using transposition the players could lull themselves into the illusion that they played instruments that all had the basic pitch C, and that meant that they only had to learn one set of fingerings, namely the one for an instrument in C. And who payed the price for this? The composers, conductors and those musicians who didn't have exactly the instrument which a composer had demanded.

The most silly transposition system is that used by hornists: when their parts are written with the G clef a standard horn in F transposes a quint downwards, but with an f clef it transposes a quart upwards. That''s bad enough, but add to that calamity that the valves only were invented in the 18. century so before that composers demanded a wealth of differently tuned instruments (or one instrument with a set of auxiliary tubes), but nowadays hornist almost always use a standard instrument in F - except for certain very high parts which they play on an in instrument i B flat -or an double instrument with a valve that changes the tuning from a low F to high B flat). So they have to transpose all the old parts with weird tunings in they heads while playing on a horn with the wrong tuning. The only sensible people in all this hoolabaloo are the tubaists - they also have tuned instruments, but their parts are always written at pitch. Hurray for the tuba! And of course for the trombonists too who have had smaller instruments (there are concerts by for instance Albrechtsberger for a cute little alto trombone), but they have never been tempted to claim they were transposing. They used the alto clef instead for this instrument (the one normally reserved for the viola parts).

PS: I have only quoted the beginning of each of the two pieces, but hopefully enough to give an impression of how the whole thing would sound.
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Jar-Ptitsa » Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:55 am

very interesting !!!! I tried to play Nocturne today, but it was bad (playing not the piece) so i need to practise it before I record it.

I will reply more tomorrow because I am falling a s l e e p n o w ....
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:29 pm

TO Vogeltje: You are welcome to play and even record (for your own sake) the few lines you can see above, but please remember that you only have got the beginning of each piece. The recordings should therefore not be published.

Apart from that my town Århus is preparing for the opening ceremony as one of two cultural capitals of Europe in 2017 (the other being Paphos on Cyprus). The whole town centre will be closed off for road traffic tomorrow, and at 19 o'clock a procession with 6 ships will pass through the empty streets - unfortunately accompanied by the noise from several large screens. I find that worrying because I have seen that the organizers have hired some singers to scream their lungs out, and there are ominous threats about several choirs participating in the event. Maybe I can find a nice quite spot - otherwise I'll just find the nearest place where I can find a bus back home, and then I suppose some of the local channels will show me what I have missed. Or maybe I just stay at home and watch the whole thing on TV - without sound.

But this gave me an idea for some extensive reading on the internet - namely to read about the effects on the towns which previously have had the honour. Like Mons in Belgium, which I happened to visit in 2015 where it was one of the two designated towns - the other one being Plzeň in the Czech Republic.

DU: Ik waar bijna een week in Lille (een andere voormalige culturale kapitaal) om een Esperanto universaale wereldconferentie te besoeken, en daarnaa koos ik een paar nachten in Mons/Bergen en een paar nachten in Mechelen te nemen. En deze steden heb ik gebruikt als uitvalsbasis voor bezoeken aan andere steden in het Vlaamse deel van het land (ik heb later het Waalse deel bezocht, waar ik drie nachten heb doorbracht in Luik/Liège). En wat heeft Mons dan gedaan met zijn voorbijgaande toestand als cultureele hoofdstad? Nou, zij hebben vier nieuwe musea geopend - maar offenbaar te weinig tijd gehebt om zijn ambitieuze nieuwe station fertig te bouwen. Deze laatste ding klingt bekant voor ons hier in Aarhus, want wij hebben grote delen van de stadcentrum jarenlang in chaos gehebt als gevolg van de aanleg van een lightrail. Dit zou later in 2017 voltooid worden, maar laaten ons eens zien of het lukt. En evenmeer zal ons hele stationsgebied omgebouwd worden omdat de verantwoordelijke autoriteiten zelfgenoegzaam jaar geleden hebben slechte dieselloks gekocht in plaats van het elektrificeren van de hoofdlijn van Kopenhagen naar Aarhus, en nu hebben ze ontdekt dat er niet genoeg ruimte is voor draden onder onze Station. Oeps! En zo'n kalamiteit gebeurt natuurlijk in het jaar waar wij culturele hoofstad zijn en op een groet taal van touristen hopen... Inzake bezienswaardigheden: In Aarhus zal er meer een kwestie van uitbreidingen van bestaande grote musea zijn, terwijl het stadsbestuur verbluffend passief is geweest met betrekking tot kleine bedreigde musea. En onze cathedral zal één maand worden totaal afgesloten omdat er theater daarin zal worden gespeeld.

FR: J'ai d'ailleurs essayé de trouver le rapport d'évaluation écrit après l'année de gloire de Mons, mais il semble qu'il seulement existe en français - en tout cas j'y ai trouvé le lien sur une page flamande, et on aurait dit qu'ils eussent préféré une version flamande s'il y en eût eu.

EN: The complete list over the towns who have had the honour or will get it in the coming years can of course be found at Wikipedia, and to my glee I can see that I have visited all of the previous places except Cork in Ireland (2005), Pécz in Hungary (2010) and Košice in Slovakia(2013) - though apart from Mons never in the relevant year - but (SCO) aanerly in the case o' Glesgae ah knew that it had ance been a cultural caipital o Europe (as faur back as 1990).

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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby tarvos » Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:20 pm

Hoi Iversen, zou je een aantal correcties willen op je tekst? Grammaticaal klopt het allemaal wel, maar je woordkeuze is een beetje apart.
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm

Ik denk dat ik zal liever voortleven in zalige onwetendheid.
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby tarvos » Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:55 pm

Ik weet niet of dat ironisch bedoeld was, maar dan houd ik mijn correcties voor me :)
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Jar-Ptitsa » Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:39 am

Iversen wrote:TO Vogeltje: You are welcome to play and even record (for your own sake) the few lines you can see above, but please remember that you only have got the beginning of each piece. The recordings should therefore not be published.


It's good that you have said this because my plan was to record it and put on youtube (without my real name or your name as the composer). I won't record it, please don't worry about that.

I will reply more to your interesting infos about the instruments etc soon. with the double meds now I could fall asleep when I am standing or sitting, incredible.

trouwens, zijn jullie heel grappig allebei: tarvos met de beschrijving 'beetje aparte' woordkeuze, en Iversen ' voortleven met zalige onwetendheid' Ik lach me kapot hahaha

Schönes Wochenende zusammen.
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Re: Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

Postby Iversen » Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:04 am

IT: Oggi mi svegliai da un sogno interamente in italiano. Fui in Roma con mia madre (il che infatti era il caso in 1974, ma ora ella non può fare tali viaggi). Avevamo visitato qualcosa (ho dimenticato che cosa era) e dovevamo ora ritornare alla stazione ferroviaria - ed mi ricordò che il nome della stazione principale della città era Stazione Termini. Ma la geografia era un poco confusa nel sogno: portava con me una guide con una carta di piegatura, e mi ricordo come la ho spiegato una volta sull'una volta e parecchie volte sull'altra, e poi ho visto che c'era una sorta di viale direttamente dalla nostra posizione (cioè nei pressi di Porta Pia nel mondo reale) alla Stazione Termini. Ma non funzionava così: abbiamo comminciato di camminare, ma la madre ha chiesto un autobus - e allora: dove si trovava la fermata dell'autobus? I dintorni in questo momento non sembravano più a un grosso viale, ma piuttosto ad una strada stretta con piccoli negozii e restauranti e bar. Io ho chiesto a qualche italiani intorno una tavola ronda dov'era la fermata, ma essi hanno puntati in tutte le direzioni. Non sapevano nient'affatto. Ho dimenticato come abbiamo resolto questa situazione, ma nell'ultima sezione la madre già era a Termini ed io era con un gruppo di turisti aspettando il suo bus turistico che dovessi trasportargli alla stazione. Non so perché, ma mi sono chiesto il nome di un certo formaggio nella ventana di un negozio - ed avevo dimenticato la parola 'formaggio'. Ispirato dalla francese ho usato la forma *'fromaggio', e gli italiani nel sogno ovviamente non hanno capito niente e subito tutti i turisti con la loro guida si trovavano nella negozio di formaggi per comprare 'frrrromaggi'... ed nella confusione generale mi sono svegliato...

Kunst009.JPG

GR: Χθες ανέφερα τις τρεις προηγούμενες πολιτιστικές πρωτεύουσες που δεν ακόμη έχω επισκεφτεί, αλλά ξέχασα να αναφέρω ότι δεν έχω ούτε επισκεφθεί τη δεύτερη από τις πρωτεύουσες του τρέχοντος έτους: Πάφος στη δυτική ακτή της Κύπρος. Αλλά έχω επισκεφθεί Κύπρος σ'ένα πακέτο διακοπών. Κοιμήθηκα τις περισσότερες φορές στην Αγία Νάπα, αλλά επίσης ταξίδεψε για ιδιωτικά ταξίδια στην Βόρεια Κύπρος (με διαμονή στο τουρκικό τμήμα της Λευκωσίας) και στο Λίβανο, με διαμονή στη Βηρυτό και με ταξί, μεταξύ άλλων, στον Μπάαλμπεκ.

DU: Voor Tarvos: Ik waardeer wel dat iemand de tijd neemt om correcties aan te stellen betreffend de dingen wat ik schrijf, maar ik heb de mening dat alleen correcties die in één keer een hoop potentiele toekomstige fouten corrigeert echt heilzaam zijn. Als ik een groot aantal correcties voor losse woorden zie, leer ik niets meer dan uit een lijst van nieuwe woorden.
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