Iversen's second multiconfused log thread

[Iversen]

EN: I'm having some problems with "too many connections" for the moment, but hopefully it will be possible to make an tiny addition to this thread.

Yesterday evening I perused some of my old Serbian texts and chose one about канцеларка Меркел (Kanzlerin Merkel, Germany) for closer study. It dates back to the period where she still believed that it was possible to accept all the fugitives who arrived throught the Balkan corridor, so in that sense it felt somewhat dated - and that's about as far as I'll go in discussing the text since its topic is so politically sensitive.

SE: То је прилично дуго времена јер сам интензивно радио са српском -аправио сам паузу за време мог боравка у Словачкој и Чешкој - тако да је сада мало зарђао. Скоро да сам морао да поново уче своје завршетке, али ово је једна од ствари које можете да урадите за репревођења.. Допуњен сам своје очитавања са листа речи садржи речи које почињу са Ш. Ја сам увек пријатно изненађује да те су толико посуђенице - укључујући речи "шлага" (од немачког "Schlagsahne").

EN: I would have continued with Serbian this morning, but happened to run into a TV program about electric fish in the Amazon river, followed by another about 'goonches' (big catfish) - of course in English, but especially the first of these two programmes was too interesting to miss. Normally I watch TV with the sound turned down so that it doesn't disturb my studies, and luckily there are subtitles at many of the channels I watch (though not those in Romance or Slavic languages - and certainly not the one in Albanian!) which makes this strategy function quite well. But if the topic is too alluring then I turn the sound up and take the consequences.

POR: O peixe-elétrico mais conhecido é naturalmente a enguia elétrica, que também é o único que pode matar rapina grande com seus pulsos elétricos. Quase todo o seu corpo é dedicado a gerar eletricidade - sua bunda está perto de seu queixo, e em sua boca tem uma estrutura que serve como um pulmão. Definitivamente uma criatura estranha! Embora no fato não seja uma enguia: "O poraquê (Electrophorus electricus) é uma espécie de peixe actinopterígio, gimnotiforme, que pode chegar a sete metros de comprimento e pesar cerca de setenta quilogramas", diz Wikipedia. Tem outros especies de gimnotiformes como tuvira, sarapó, ituí etc, em total o grupo compreende cerca de 30 espécies, mas as espécies menores usam principalmente as suas descarregas elétricas para defensa e orientação na água lamacento do rio. Isto também se aplica para os peixes eléctricos de outras famílias. Há também muitos peixes os quais não produzem eletricidade, mas que tem órgãos que podem detecta-la na agua escura.

Quando eu visito aquários em torno do mundo, muitas vezes há um departamento com peixes da América do Sul, mas a gente está inclinada a ver apenas as espécies grandes e/o famosas - como as piranhas, que não são de todo tão perigosas quanto a gente pensa. Quando os detentores de aquários deve limpá-los, eles estão de pé na água em suas botas de borracha com decenas de piranhas orbitando as suas pernas, peró eles sobrevivem - embora provavelmente alimentam as piranhas antes da acção por razões de segurança...

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[Fasulye]

Hej Iversen,

Jeg bruger ikke sa meget dansk, kun for at snakke pa Skype og laese danske astronomi artikeler. Om mit norskkursus har du laest pa HTLAL. Min Skypie for at tale dansk med bor i Norge. Vi har en tresproglig Skype - gruppe med en ny medlem. Nu snakker vi ikke kun tysk og engelsk, men ogsa fransk.

Hilsener og gode sprogstudier!

Fasulye

[Iversen]

Long time no see... men hyggeligt at se en gammel moderatorkollega igen. Og jeg konstaterer at skakken stadig står på dagsordenen. Det må jo så glæde en norsksstuderende at den norske skakverdens superstjerne Magnus Karlsson Carlsen (ups!) med det yderste af neglene formåede at redde sit verdensmesterskab - det må I kunne snakke noget om i den der Skype-gruppe.

Jeg kan se at der er at par af mine billeder der skal genindsættes på denne sidste side, men ellers er vi vist sluppet lempeligt fra nedbruddet, der kom lige så pludseligt som dem på HTLAL - men med en bedre kontakt til forummets ejer.

Jeg har tilbragt det meste af dagen med at nørkle med min musiksamling, men i formiddags nåede jeg at lave et par serbiske ordlister.

EN: And for those who still haven't learnt a Scandinavian language: the references to chess are based on the observation that Fasulye, who was very active on HTLAL, became interested in chess while still studying Norwegian and Danish. And as the resident chess buffs may be aware the Norwegian chess worldmaster managed to keep his title (although he had to get his victory in a rapid chess tiebreak match after an even main match). And then I hypothesized that this might be a relevant theme for her Norwegian Skype exchanges.

And "sigh of relief": then it seems that we got fairly unscathed through the recent blackout (see the message from Rdearman for details). I have to reupload the last two pictures above, but otherwise everything seems to be OK.

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[Iversen]

PS: I forgot to mention that the text in the window to the right on the painting above is a literal quote from "Jydske lov", the old law for Jutland which was made public in 1241. It looks like this:

Medieval Danish:
Mæth logh scal land byggæs. æn wildæ hwær man oruæs at sit eghæt, oc late men nʉtæ iafnæth. tha thʉrftæ men ekki logh with. æn ængi logh ær æm goth at fʉllughæ sum sanænd. æn hwaræ sum mæn æuær um sanænd. thæræ scal logh letæ hwilt sannænd ær,

Modern Danish:
Med lov skal land bygges, men ville enhver nøjes med sit eget og lade andre nyde samme ret, da behøvede man ikke nogen lov. Men ingen lov er jævngod at følge som sandheden, men hvor man er i tvivl om sandheden, der skal loven vise hvad sandheden er.

Semiliteral English:
With law shall (the) land be built, but would everyone be content with his/her own and let others enjoy the same right, then you wouldn't need any law. But no law is as good to follow as the truth, but where you are in doubt about the truth, there the law shall show what the truth is.

[Fasulye]

DK: Tak for din svar. Skakverdens superstjerne hedder Magnus Carlsen. "Medieval Danish" kan jeg ikke forsta, men din oversaettelse pa rigsdansk hjaelper mig fint. Helt praktiskt at se dine billeder her pa din log. Det var ikke muligt pa den gamle HTLAL.

Fasulye

[Iversen]

GER: Ich sehe jetzt eine deutschsprachige Sendung über Maximilian, der zuerst österreichischer Erzherzog war (und habsburger) und Charlotte von Belgien heiratete - aber Kaiser Franz-Josef war während dem Hochzeit abwesend, sagen sie.. Noch wichtiger war aber, daβ Kaiser Napoleon III von Frankreich - der gerade eine Invasion von Mexico durchgeführt hatte - ihm dort als Herscher einsetzen wollte ... aber nach einer von der USA gestützten Austand haben die Mexicaner haben ihn kurzerhand hingerichtet, weil sie von Frankreich sich befreien wollte. Armer Mann..

FR: ... mais ce qui me plait, ce que les Français (y inclu l'empereur) parlent français, et il semble que messieur Maximilien aussi a pu parler cette langue. Mais il n'a pas su grand-chose sur le Mexique, sinon il aurait resté à la maison. Mais l'empereur autrichien a demandé qu'il accepte l'offre, et en conséquence il a perdu ses droits sur la throne autricienne... Pauvre homme!

IT: In questo momento una dama parla italiano .. e perché? Perché Maximilian e la sua moglie prima dell'avventura mexicana vivevano nel castello Miramare in Trieste, dove la gente le volevano bene e dove erano molto felici.

SP: Y en Mexico todos los odian -sobretodo el presidente Juarez. El desafortunado Maximiliano fue ejecutado en el Cerro de las Campanas de la ciudad de Querétaro, el 19 de junio de 1867, segundo Wikipedia. Lo han almeno enbalsamado antes de mandar el cuerpo a Viena. Personalmente, yo he visto su Palacio de Chapultepec en la Ciudad de Mexico en 1991 (cerca del Museo Arqueologico y del Jardin Zoologico Nacional) y era sin duda muy lujuoso, peró al mismo tiempo el emperador Maximilian fue el gobernador mas moderno y democratico al quién los mexicanos hubieren podido haber - en otras circunstancias. POR: Como Pedro II no Brazil.

FR: Mais Charlotte/Carlota avait fuit. Quand Napoléon III a demandé que Maximiliano demissionne elle a contraint son mari à rester tandis elle essayait de changé la décision de l'empéreur français.. en vain. Mais elle a survécu, lui non. Eh bien, elle est devenu folle, mais resta vivante pour encore 60 d'années. Le frère de Charlotte était d'ailleurs le roi des Belges, bourreau des Congolais.

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[Iversen]

I have once again spent a couple of days working with my music collection rather than languages, but I did watch a couple of hours TV with sound (!) today - most of of my watching is without sound, but with Danish subtitles when I listen to music, and that basically limits me to Anglophone channels, where the cable provider apparently has contracted a translator service, plus Danish TV where half the programmes are in English with Danish subtitles. There aren't subtitles on programmes from the rest of the world.

FR: Mais ajourd'hui vers midi j'ai trouvé une émission culturelle/culinaire sur une des chaines Francophones qui avait l'air d'être intéressante - et elle l'était, mais pas pour la raison que je croyais. J'ai lu dans les information préalables qu'on allait visiter Chaumont - et je croyais évidemment c'était le chateau Chaumont sur Loire, où la fameuse Diane de Poitiers (portrait ci-dessous) passait ses derniers jours, et que j'ai visité avec ma famille. Mais il y a apparemment aussi une petite ville Chaumont en Haut-Marne, et c'est loin des lieux favoris de la belle Diana, maitresse du roi Henri II (l'objet de la seule prédiction vraiment réussie d'un charlatan nommé Nostradamus) ... qui n'aimait d'ailleurs pas tellement Chaumont. Mais après la mort (prédite) du roi sa veuve a proposé d'échanger le chateau préféré de Diane, Chenonceaux, contre le moins charmant batiment de Chambord, et avec le roi dans la tombe Diane n'a pas osé de réfuser. Tout de même j'ai regardé le programme en écoutant, et j'ai beaucoup appris sur un lieu en France dont je ne savais même pas qu'il existât..

D'abord on a parlé de la forteresse Bourlemont qu'on est en train de restituer, et c'était en effet très intéressant de suivre les travaux. J'ai me suis noté que "puzzle" est prononcé comme /pösöl/ en français - peut-être en revanche pour la maniére bizarre dont les Anglais prononce les mots français. Après on est retourné au poste de commande en centre-ville, où quelques journalistes ont discuté entre eux et avec la population indigène du lieu. Entre autre choses on a demandé au gens comment s'appellent les résidents de la ville voisine de Saint-Dizier. "Bragards", c'était le mot - et ceci dû au fait qu'un des rois français (peut-être François I ?) a passé par ces lieux il y a cinq cent années, et ce roi a a parlé des "braves gars" qu'il y avait là - et depuis lors, eux et leur descendants ont toujours maintenu la mémoire chérie de cet apogée de bienveillance royale envers leur ville - come si rien ne s'était passé là depuis la visite du roi...

Et évidemment on avait aussi invité plusieurs chefs à montrer leurs créations, et on n'a cessé de les louer pour quoi que ce soit qu'ils aient eu à montrer au publique dûment admirative. Comme on sais, la cuisine est chère au français, et comme pour le prouver le programme suivant décrivait la vie des producteurs de fromages et huile d'olive de qualité à la Corse - et je ne vais pas bientot oublier la vue d'une salle pleine de degustateurs d'huile d'olive dont chacun avait pris une bouchée de la substance pour pouvoir discuter les charactéristique et arômes diverses de chaque marque. Comme avec le vin, sauf que que le bragards (et bragardes) sur Corse ont avalé.

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[Iversen]

LAT: Etiamnunc collectionem musicae meam gero, atque etiam musicam in Youtubo ausculto quia ibi inter videotaenias de adolescentivus stultiis sibi laedentibus, felibus canibusque confusibus et lectiones linguae etiam musica classica est. Et de 'classica' ego praecipue ad musicam ante nativitatem meam refero, non ad operas juveniles Lapidium Volventium aut Statuti semper Quo. Exempli grati, heri restitutionem hymni sexti hurriani auscultavi. Dicitur quod ea vetustior omnis musicae conservatae mundi est,abhinc circa 4200 annii. Hurri populus fuit qui sumeres domavit sed etiam multa ex civilitati ei conservavit, exempla gratia scripta cuneiforma - etiamsi ratio scribenda ista linguae semiticae hurrianorum non valde ideonea erat. Num etiam sumerii musicam suam notabat? Haud - texta sumerianorum praecipue de tabularii aut sacerdotibus (aut scribes in servitudine suorum) facta sunt et transactiones eorum servabant.

SCO: But maist o the componers in my collection are a wee bit newer. Like Sophia Giustina Dussek (née Corri). O wilk nationality might she be? Italian? Noo, she wis a Scots lady o Italian descent, but marriet tae a (male) Czech componer, whase name can be spelt Dussek or Duschek or Düssek or Dusik (or whitsamever ither spelling youse might prefer) - and the marrains lived in Lunnon ('London') until mr. Dussek left in anger. In the Inglisch Wikipedia thare is a tall tale o the private lives o the Dusseks:

In 1796, Dussek and his wife began having serious marital troubles. In an account of uncertain veracity, it was reported that Sophia, who had fallen in love with another man, asked Dussek for money to repair her harp. She then used the money to leave the house, removing her belongings in her harp case, and claiming to have left for dinner with a female friend. A suspicious Dussek went with his father-in-law to the man's house, where Sophia locked herself in. She and Dussek argued, and she cursed him, claiming to be pregnant by the other man. Dussek, relenting, promised her freedom to do what she wanted; this led to a reconciliation of sorts. It seems unlikely that Dussek ever saw Sophia and his daughter Olivia after he left London in 1799; Sophia had to wait until she knew Dussek had died before she could remarry, which she did in 1812

IT: Uno dei motivi att mia collezione di musica prende così tanto del mio tempo è che io voglio avere un catalogo di temi per tutti pezzi musicali in essa. Quando feci la mia prima collezione foi studente all'università di Århus ed avessi accesso all'enorme collezione di stampe di musica della biblioteca dello Stato (accanto dell'università).. Più tarde, nelle anni 1991-92 dove ho fatto la mia seconda collezione (più grande e più strettamente organizzata) ho potuto utillizzare le mie vecchie liste di temata delle anno settanta-otttanta, ma a questo punto dovessi prestire i particelli ecc. attravverso la biblioteca centrale comunale - ed ho comminciato di aggiungere i temi mancanti ad orecchio - ciò che sto facendo anche al giorno d'oggi. Tuttavia ho trovato recentemente una fonte encomiabile sul internet sotto forma di un sito web (chiamato "IMSLP/Petrucci Music") con migliaia di note scansionati pdf con i diritti scaduti d'autore: . Come per esempio le tre sonate per arpa sola dell'indimenticabile signora Dussek.

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[Iversen]

When I wrote about mrs. Dussek yesterday it was at the back of my mind to write some more about female composers, who generally have had a hard time getting their works recognized. Those who succeeded more often than not were born into a musical dynasty or they were at least married to a musician (like mrs. Dussek), and even then there are cases where their works were silently published under the name of their spouse or a relative - like in the case of Fanny Hensel, the sister of Felix Mendelssohn-Bartholdy, who got some of her songs published under his name.

Some time ago I also mentioned a theory that J.S: Bach's second wife, Anna Magdalena, actually not only functioned as his copyist, but also clandestinely may have supplied some of the music. J.S. Bach's eyesight failed towards the end of his life, and he had to dictate his compositions to others, including his pupil Altnikol. But in an age where all renowned painters had ateliers with apprentices who added details to the works of their masters, it is not inconceivable that a gifted lady like Anna Magdalena occasionally would have slipped some of her own material into the works published under the name of the chef d'atelier. With A.M. Bach this has remained a strong suspicion, but with Fanny Hensel it is a proven fact - some of her songs were published under her brother's name, including precisely some that were inadvertently lauded by queen Victoria of England. Sophia Dussek did publish some works under her own name, but the harp sonatas were published under the name "Dussek", and even the great Nicanor Zabaleta was fooled into believing that this referred to her (remarkably patient) husband. but apparently it has now been proven that Sophia wrote them - which also is logical, since she played the instrument.

By the way, did you know that a modern harp basically is tuned in Ces, but each string can be tuned 2 x a halftone up by stepping on the seven pedals at the bottom of the instryment? This system was invented by Sebastian Erard (maybe a relative of the polyglot book man, maybe not) during the life time of Sophia D. Later in the 19. century another female harpist named Henriette Renié was educated on the Erard harp, but preferred a chromatic harp with an insane amount of strings (one for each note). Because of this AND her strong religious beliefs she missed the opportunity to break the gender barrier of the Parisian Conservatoire - and probably also of getting the Legion d'Honneur. In some strongly sexist orchestras like the Vienna Philharmonic (up to 1997) the harpist would be the only female musician in the whole orchestra, so it wasn't a bad instrument to choose for an ambitious woman. For others the piano had the same function, like in the case of Clara (Wieck) Schumann.

I would like also to mention Ethel Mary Smyth, who as a girl locked herself up in her chamber and refused to leave it until her father had agreed to letting her study music. She later became a renowned suffragette, but also managed to be a fairly wellknown composer until around 2013, where progressive deafness diverted her activities towards writing. In 1922 she succeeded in being accorded the 'dame' title - and in some sources she is therefore consistently called "dame Ethel Smyth". I find that habit silly, just as in the case of counts and dukes (or the indispensable 'Dr.' before the names of German academics with that degree). That also means that I refuse to include 'king' or 'queen' as part of the name in my composer lists, like with Henry VIII and Friedrich II of England resp. Prussia.

GER: Wenn wir über deutsche Komponisten des 18. Jahrhunderts sprechen, sollte man wohl auch Herzogin Anna Amalia von Braunschweig-Wolfenbüttel erwähnen, die nicht nur Mäzenin war, aber auch selbst komponiert hat - aber nichts davon publiziert hat. Seine Werke wurden doch in den Arkiven aufbewahrt, und deshalb haben sie überlebt.

IT: E parlando sul tema "costumi strani di denominazione" devo anche citare i miei problemi con compositori italiani del Rinascimento come Viadana (del quale la Wikipedia inglese scrive: "Lodovico Grossi da Viadana (usually Lodovico Viadana, though his family name was Grossi)" - e questo è il mio problemo: normalmente preferisco alfabetizzare le mie liste secondo il nome di famiglia, ma con questi compositori italiani l'epiteto geografico è spesso più significativo e più conosciuto. A volte non c'è un nome di famiglia o appare come un nome di battesimo, come nel caso di Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina (nato 1525 a Palestrina), e allora è inevitabile utillizzare l'epiteto, e dopo un certo tempo di reflessione ho deciso di farlo generalmente per gli compositori italiani di quest'epoca - salvo quando non c'è un epiteto, come nel caso di signor Girolamo Frescobaldi. Quest'è un mondo complicato!

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[Iversen]

FR: Hier j'ai visité une ville voisine, et dans le train j'ai ouvert pour la première fois le livre "40 Leçons pour découvrir le grec ancien", que j'ai acheté à Paris pendant un de mes voyages. Je n'ai toujours pas l'intention de commencer à apprendre l'ancien grec, ni dans sa forme homérique, ni celle de l'age d'or d'Athènes, ni le koiné, mais j'estime que mon dhimotiki est maintenant assez bien fondé pour ne pas être affecté. Et d'ailleurs ce type de livre ne serait pas idéal pour apprendre une langue. La première pierre d'achoppement, ce qu'il est douteux de quelle sorte d'ancien grec il s'agit. Ce n'est pas le koiné, puisque alors il y aurait beaucoup plus de lettres avec diacritiques. D'autre part, on a pas utilisé des signes diacritiques du tout avant la periode héllenistique, c.a.d. après la periode avec les philosophes et écrivains fameux comme par example Platon et Aristoteles - mais il semble que le système avec trois accents et deux aspirations de l'age hellenistique (et plus tard, du kathareuousa) est devenu le standard utilisé pour toute édition non-scientifique des oeuvres antérieures au koiné.

GR: Υπάρχουν πολλά πράγματα σε αυτό το βιβλίο που με ενοχλεί. Σε κάθε μάθημα δίνει μια σύντομη πολύ ατελή κάλυψη ενός γραμματικό φαινόμενο - αλλά ποτέ αρκετό ώστε να μπορείτε να δείτε σε αυτό το πλαίσιο. Ωστόσο, έχει αρχίσει να πάρει μορφολογικά πίνακες μέση του βιβλίου, αλλά θα προτιμούσα να τους δει από την πρώτη. Αλλά αυτό είναι σίγουρα μια τάση που παρατηρείται επίσης και σε άλλες πρόσφατες σχολικά βιβλία - όχι μόνο στα γαλλικά. Επίσης θεωρώ ενοχλητικό ότι οι πληροφορίες και ασκήσεις αναμιγνύονται, και πάλι αυτό είναι μια κοινή τάση στα σχολικά εγχειρίδια - και το βασικό μου κίνητρο για να τα χρησιμοποιούν μόνο πολύ λίγο. Υπάρχουν, από την άλλη πλευρά, πολιτιστικών πληροφοριών, ο γεγονός που καθιστά το βιβλίο χρήσιμο ως την ψυχαγωγία ανάγνωση. Και έτσι σκοπεύω να περάσουν το υπόλοιπο της αυτά τα Χριστούγεννα με αυτό το βιβλίο ...

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