Just German for Now

[clay]

Hi there. I've lurked on the forum off and on for a few years, and I'm finally making a log to track my super challenge progress. I've really enjoyed reading other logs as a source of inspiration. I'm doing a full challenge in German, which is the only language I study, but as the title of the log indicates, I'd love to add other languages to the mix down the line. Other than the main problem of there simply not being enough hours in the day, I have too many languages I'd like to start next, but no clear reason to pick one over all the others. Anyways, I'd like to significantly improve my German level before picking up another language, and I'm hoping the super challenge helps move my level forward.

Starting Level

To get a sense of where I'm starting from, I took the Dialang assessments and the ITT Leipzig receptive vocabulary test. According to the ITT Leipzig test, I know 89% of the 5,000 most common words. These were my Dialang results:

Listening: B2
Writing: B1
Reading: C1
Structures: A2
Vocabulary: B2

I had taken the ITT Leipzig test some time ago, and scored somewhere in the 80s, so I knew about what to expect there, but I had no idea where the Dialang tests would place me. If they had all been straight B1s, I wouldn't have been surprised, and I expected to be pleased if I managed any B2s. So I was somewhat surprised by the range of results here, but at the same time it's not that surprising given how I've spent my time with the language.

I don't actually believe my reading is at a C1 level. The reading samples were mostly drawn from newspapers, and although I don't actually spend any time reading the newspaper in German, I have gone through almost all of an Anki deck of the 4,000 most common words where the deck appears to have been built from a newspaper heavy corpus. The sample texts in the Dialang reading assessment also reminded me of the kinds of things we read in college ages ago. Given all that, I'm inclined to attribute the C1 score to some combination of good guesses and previous exposure to the kind of vocabulary and language being tested. Despite that, I prefer to read fiction, where a lot of that vocabulary doesn't carry over. When I'm reading a novel, I very much don't feel like I have anything approaching a C1, or maybe even a B2, level.

History with the Language

I took German four years in high school and minored in German in college. I was happy with the experience and had several fantastic teachers, but at the end of it all, I would have described myself as "conversational" in German. I hadn't heard of the CEFR at the time, but I would guess I was a solid B1. I could have conversations on everyday subjects, and I could get by in the country with the sort of basic things you need to know to travel around, but I couldn't read the first page of Harry Potter. In hindsight, it's shocking that I studied the language so long, did well in my classes, and yet couldn't read the first page of a book for children translated from English that I'd read before. At the same time, it's not that shocking, as we almost never read fiction in my classes and I simply didn't have the vocabulary for it.

After college, I didn't touch German except for a semester of grad school that I spent in Germany. While I did take one German class during that semester, my program was taught entirely in English, so my level didn't really move forward at all despite being in the country for several months. For many years after that, I didn't touch the language at all. Then in 2020, I quit my job and changed careers, mostly so I would have time to spend with my family, but also so that I would have time to pursue interests that had long been neglected. So in 2020 I decided to start learning German again. For anyone actually reading this, I won't bore you with all the ups and downs since then of trying to re-self-teach the language to myself, but the short version is that over the past four years I've generally followed a pattern of intensely focusing on German for several months at a time, followed by several months off where I pursue other hobbies and interests, only to pick German back up when the itch comes back. We'll see if the super challenge helps me smooth out that cycle and stay more consistent.

One of the challenges for me at the moment is having a hard time dividing my time between reading in English and reading in German. I haven't quite found a way to do as much reading in both as I would like. Anyway, onward with the super challenge, and in subsequent posts I'll actually provide some details on what I've been reading and listening to for the first week.

[clay]

From reading other logs, it seems like the trendy thing to do is reserve the second post for future needs. It might be nice to keep a running list of books, movies, shows etc. that I go through as part of the challenge in one place, so I'll start that list now and keep it updated as the challenge progresses.

Super Challenge Books

1. Western Philosophy in Simple German by Olly Richards
2. Abendruh by Tess Gerritsen (en: Last to Die)
3. Deutsche Literatur von Heute by Agnes Körner Domandi and Doris Stärr Guilloton
4. Emil und Die Detektive by Erich Kästner

Super Challenge Films

1. Harry Potter und der Orden des Phönix (Hörbuch)
2. Die Säulen der Erde (Computerspiel)
3. Stranger Things (Staffel 4)

[clay]

Here's where I'm at after the first week of the super challenge.

• Pages read: 74
• Minutes listened: 248

Reading

So far all of the pages read are from Western Philosophy in Simple German. I started this book with low expectations, but at $4 for the kindle edition, I was willing to give it a shot. I've been pleasantly surprised and really like it as a learner resource. Each chapter is a dialogue between three students who are taking a philosophy course and in each chapter they discuss the most recent lecture. The dialogue format saves the book from reading like a watered down wikipedia article.

I started the book a little bit before the challenge started, so the 74 pages so far cover reading and re-reading a chapter on Kant, a chapter on Schopenhauer and Nietzsche, a chapter on Russell, Moore and Wittgenstein, and a chapter on Sarte and Existentialism. Counting the re-reads feels a bit like cheating since the read tends to go much faster, but I feel like I get a lot out of the re-read by consolidating whatever new terms appeared in the chapter. I also will actually stop and click on any interesting words so the kindle will save the lookup and I'll have the option to make Anki cards out of the sentences down the road if I think they'll be useful.

Listening

Most of the listening has been Harry Potter und der Orden des Phönix. When the challenge started, I was a little over 5 hours into the audiobook, and I managed to listen to another 3 hours or so.

Another 60 minutes came from playing Die Säulen der Erde. It's basically a visual novel masquerading as a point-and-click adventure from what I can tell so far. I wasn't sure how to count the time playing the game. I have the German subtitles turned on, so there is both listening and reading happening a lot, but not all, of the time spent playing. I didn't want to start counting words in dialogues, so I'm counting this as listening but applying a 1/3 ratio to time spent on the game, so I'm only counting the three hours I played as one hour of listening. I'm also tabbing out of the game periodically to make Anki cards for any interesting words or expressions that come up. I'm doing this with Migaku, so making a pretty nice card with the word, example sentence, audio and an image only takes a few seconds really, so it doesn't break the flow of the game too terribly.

[Le Baron]

In hindsight, it's shocking that I studied the language so long, did well in my classes, and yet couldn't read the first page of a book for children translated from English that I'd read before. At the same time, it's not that shocking, as we almost never read fiction in my classes and I simply didn't have the vocabulary for it.

I don't know how long ago this was, but it seems to have crept up in official language learning. I suppose it depends upon the goal of the teaching/learning and if they perhaps focus on practical language above all. It's different to when I was at school where they pursued one or more books per term and encouraged extra-curricular reading.
I saw one university course for French (perhaps as minor subject) where it built up to 'reading a French novel'. To my mind any student of a language should have read several before they ever get to that level.

One of the challenges for me at the moment is having a hard time dividing my time between reading in English and reading in German. I haven't quite found a way to do as much reading in both as I would like. Anyway, onward with the super challenge, and in subsequent posts I'll actually provide some details on what I've been reading and listening to for the first week.

The way I do it is to read a book in one language as bedtime reading and other languages at other times of the day. Generally I read for about half an hour in the morning after breakfast (longer at the weekend) and again in the early evening and then at bedtime. I cycle the languages around those times. Currently it's Spanish in the morning, French early evening and English or Dutch before sleeping. When I finish a book I cycle the language.

[Cavesa]

Nice log. But I am still digesting the outrage that you say "Just German". German is a beast. Tackling one dragon at a time (or simply one dragon in a lifetime) is not something "just a little" or "not enough".

[clay]

In hindsight, it's shocking that I studied the language so long, did well in my classes, and yet couldn't read the first page of a book for children translated from English that I'd read before. At the same time, it's not that shocking, as we almost never read fiction in my classes and I simply didn't have the vocabulary for it.

I don't know how long ago this was, but it seems to have crept up in official language learning. I suppose it depends upon the goal of the teaching/learning and if they perhaps focus on practical language above all. It's different to when I was at school where they pursued one or more books per term and encouraged extra-curricular reading.
I saw one university course for French (perhaps as minor subject) where it built up to 'reading a French novel'. To my mind any student of a language should have read several before they ever get to that level.

This was 15-20 years ago. In fairness to my professors, the program was definitely focused on very practical language, at least in the classes I took. But then again, maybe this had more to do with me. A good chunk of the classes that made up my minor were geared towards using German in a business context. Looking at the department's course catalog now, there are plenty of classes in German literature offered, but I never signed up for any of those.

I do remember one assignment where we were able to choose the subject, and I attempted to read Mein Jahrhundert by Günter Grass. It was too hard, so I grabbed an English translation from the library, leaned on that quite a bit, then wrote an essay in German about the book. It didn't occur to me to use the English translation as a tool for making the German text comprehensible, or to go back and re-read the chapters in German after reading them in English, or any of the other countless techniques for getting better at reading in a foreign language. I had a very passive attitude about it all, where I thought because I was taking the classes I should have just been able to pick up the book and read it. When that turned out not to be the case, I basically gave up, instead of taking an active role in my own education and putting in the effort to be able to read fiction outside of class.

One of the challenges for me at the moment is having a hard time dividing my time between reading in English and reading in German. I haven't quite found a way to do as much reading in both as I would like. Anyway, onward with the super challenge, and in subsequent posts I'll actually provide some details on what I've been reading and listening to for the first week.

The way I do it is to read a book in one language as bedtime reading and other languages at other times of the day. Generally I read for about half an hour in the morning after breakfast (longer at the weekend) and again in the early evening and then at bedtime. I cycle the languages around those times. Currently it's Spanish in the morning, French early evening and English or Dutch before sleeping. When I finish a book I cycle the language.

I have been giving this a shot the past few days. In the morning after finishing my Anki reviews, when I've still had some time, I've grabbed the book I'm reading in English instead of German. Since I'm still riding the initial super challenge enthusiasm, I know I'm likely to get my German pages in at the end of the day, but probably won't fit the English reading in unless I get it done earlier in the day. Thanks for the tip!

[clay]

Nice log. But I am still digesting the outrage that you say "Just German". German is a beast. Tackling one dragon at a time (or simply one dragon in a lifetime) is not something "just a little" or "not enough".

I appreciate this perspective! I definitely have the polyitis itch, and in this corner of the internet where so many people are learning so many different languages, it's easy to feel like focusing on a single one is a small thing.

[wallflower]

Nice log. But I am still digesting the outrage that you say "Just German". German is a beast. Tackling one dragon at a time (or simply one dragon in a lifetime) is not something "just a little" or "not enough".

I appreciate this perspective! I definitely have the polyitis itch, and in this corner of the internet where so many people are learning so many different languages, it's easy to feel like focusing on a single one is a small thing.

Absolutely it is not a small thing. It shows discipline and dedication, imo. It's also a less frustrating experience, since you get to miss out on the necessarily slow progress that occurs when one splits their time across too many projects, you avoid decision fatigue by not having to choose what language you're going to work on at any particular time, you will feel more relaxed because you don't have a to-do list of all the other projects you've still to get to that day, etc.

Basically, it's the concept of JOMO: the Joy Of Missing Out (FOMO's antidote). By not being pulled in many directions, you will have the joy of going deeper and broader into your chosen area of interest, and being able to savor the time you do spend.

[clay]

After another week if the super challenge, here's where my numbers stand.

Week 2

• Pages Read: 88
• Minutes Listened: 392

Total

• Pages Read: 162
• Minutes Listened: 640

Reading

The content was mostly the same as week 1. I kept reading and re-reading chapters in Western Philosophy for Simple German. I finished the section of the book where the characters are taking a course on the history of philosophy, and now each chapter focuses on an aspect of philosophy (logic, ethics, etc.). I've only got a few chapters left and so should finish it up this week. I've been pleased with the book and it provided a nice start to the challenge since it's so easy to read, but I'm also excited to start something new.

Before the super challenge started, I made a rough outline of all the things I'd like to read in a steady progression of difficulty. This was meant in part as an antidote to something I've done in the past which is to bounce around too much between content of varying difficulty. The next things on the list were to read the last four volumes of the Dino Lernt Deutsch series and the last couple of entries in Andre Klein's Baumgartner & Momsen series. But now that I'm here, I have the itch to read something that isn't a graded reader. I'm wondering if this is pretty typical. I saw in another log someone mention after reading something easy, they crave something hard. And when they finish something hard, they want something easier. I might try this alternating approach, and the things I'm considering tackling next aren't actually all that hard, but will present different challenges than a graded reader. I might also try alternating reading physical books after each kindle book.

So we'll see what I pick up when this book is done in a few days. I also might spend the time getting caught up on Dracula Daily, which I saw a number of other people are working through in various languages. I actually wanted to do Dracula Daily in English when I first heard about it several months ago, since I've never read it before, and the super challenge seems like the perfect excuse to read it in German as well. So far, I've only read through the first two entries in German though, so I'm a bit behind.

Listening

Lots more listening to the Harry Potter 5 audiobook. I read the book in English 15+ years ago, and saw the movie once, but I don't remember the story of books 5-7 all that well since I have never re-watched the movies. That is keeping the audiobook engaging. I also watched episode 7 of season 4 of Stranger Things with the German dub. Each episode in the 4th season is almost the length of a movie. Episode 7 clocked in at 95 minutes. Only two episodes to go in the series and then I'll need to find a new go to show. Right now I think I might try out Barbaren. I also played about 30 more minutes of Die Säulen der Erde. I really like it both as a game/visual novel and as a learning resource, but I haven't been able to find much time to play it.

[jeffers]

I saw in another log someone mention after reading something easy, they crave something hard. And when they finish something hard, they want something easier. I might try this alternating approach, and the things I'm considering tackling next aren't actually all that hard, but will present different challenges than a graded reader. I might also try alternating reading physical books after each kindle book.

I definitely advocate switching between levels of difficulty. For one thing, variety keeps you from getting bored, and sometimes after a challenge you need something easy, and after something easy you need something difficult. But the main reason I think it's valuable is because you gain different value from the different levels of difficulty. I divide things roughly into 3 categories, all relative to myself: too easy, just about right for me for now, and too difficult. Theoretically I bounce between these, although to be honest, in reality it's more random. As long as I keep learning, there's no harm in the random approach!