Mother Tongue, First Language or native Language?

[FrannieB]

So I have a question for all the incredibly smart people on this page

I am a first generation American, with my parents immigrating to the united states. I will share my age to put this in perspective - I am 46 my brothers in their 50's.
My oldest brothers first language was Spanish - he stopped speaking very young Kindergarten or so because the schools told my parents it was best for them to have us only speak English (I know - there are so many things to say about this)
Now in our house, my parents pretty on the regular spoke Spanish to us and it wasn't until I went away to college that I actually learned the English word for some common household object.
I took Spanish in highschool and hated it - not for the language but because I always got in arguments about the language with my parents - we learned Castilian Spanish and my heritage is Latin American and well I was a teenager. Bless my Mom's soul her biggest regret when she died was listening to the stupid people who told her to have us speak English

Okay on to my question:
What is Spanish for me?
I am learning it again but my level of learning is so different from someone else - I have always had a high comprehension level of the spoken and written language - I mean I have experienced some form of input on the regular basis for most of my 46 years. My dad has lived with me for the last 11 years and he rotates between speaking Spanish and English to me - When my Mom was alive she would too - every so often when they get into a topic that really stumps me I have to say English please - not so much in the last year since I am actively studying Spanish.

Do I get to eventually claim Spanish as my mother tongue or native-like English? I know it is semantics but oddly in my 40's this is important to me. Someone on this forum mentioned Third Culture Kids and I am definitely one of those. Yes, the question as been asked if me - if I had to could I go live in Cuba - absolutely 100% yes and would understand all the culturally intricacies. I did this once with my Mom for 6 weeks and it was like being home for the first time in life. Probably why going to central America feels like going home for me. I'm probably some great project for a psychology student to study.

Kinda random musing and I look forward to hearing the responses of all the brilliant people on this forum
On another random note, I love running into other Third Culture Kids on my trips to Central America - amazing how many of us you will find to reconnect with language or the language and culture

[aokoye]

I'm going to side step the question a bit and would say that you're a heritage speaker of Spanish.

[AML]

I'll answer with definitions:
Mother tongue, First language, & Native language are all the same thing, according to wikipedia. It is possible to have more than one first/native/mother language, in the case of learning two languages from birth (typically one from the mother and one from the father).

Heritage language, on the other hand (as aokoye suggested), is the language you learn at home while growing up in the presence of a more dominant language (English, in the case of American society). A heritage language speaker usually feels more competent at the dominant language (English here).

To me, you sound like a heritage speaker, as aokoye suggested.

[zenmonkey]

TCKs unite!

Pretty much in the same shoes as you with parents that immigrated to the US (but I decided to stay Mexican by immigrating on, later).

Use whatever term you like that you think expresses the idea that you want to communicate.

What I say:
* "My first language is Spanish but my English is better"
* "Why yes, I'm a native Spanish speaker - I also moved away a long time ago. Pardon the lapses."
* My mother tongue (and father tongue) is Spanish, but they also spoke other languages."
* "I'm bilingual (or trilingual)"
* "Yes, I'm fluent"
* "Que Onda?"

I do not use "heritage speaker" outside of the forum because, for me, heritage means it's a thing you inherit but don't really use. You know, it's a bauble you keep on the mantle because it looks cool. I actively use my Spanish with family, work and in many cultural interactions. It is also a bit of a technical term that the person you are speaking to might not grasp. Choose something that expresses meaning to the receiver, it is what language is about. But it isn't a criticism to the suggestion - I would use that more within the conversations I'd have with the people here.


(By the way, most of my high school friends are TCKs, 40 years later we are still in contact.)

[perfektesLeben]

I was just told by someone else on this site, that i am also a TCK. I made already a very similar post to this. I'm from Germany and hold both American and German Passports. I spoke German with my father but since i grew up in US i learned English in the school and my grammar with german isn't so good since i never really learned it til now. But i speak it as my first Language. I say the same thing, my native language is German but i prefer English. I hate it because i wasn't allowed to make German language classes since i was called a "heritage speaker" and therefore they would be too easy. But i wanted to have someone explain the grammar, my father cannot :/ So i'm right there with you!

[FrannieB]

Interesting answers - And now I get to add heritage speaker.

I have always stated I am an English language Learner when I talk to people because I don't feel comfortable saying bilingual. And I'm pretty sure saying I'm and ELL learner is basically the same as saying I am a heritage speaker.

Yes TCK's unite - we are a unique breed. On a funny TCK not until my mid-twenties I used to refer to Americans and did not include myself in that definition. My husband pointed out to me - "you do know you are American, right" LOL. Growing up I never ever referred to or thought of myself as an American.

[zenmonkey]

Yes TCK's unite - we are a unique breed. On a funny TCK not until my mid-twenties I used to refer to Americans and did not include myself in that definition. My husband pointed out to me - "you do know you are American, right" LOL. Growing up I never ever referred to or thought of myself as an American.

Fluidity of identity.
I reserve the right to get offended for a variety of people.
Or to exclude myself from the group when they do stupid things.

With regards to language, this creates an interesting associative power - I'm pretty sure that I can slip into the cloth of a few slangs (but not others) because I feel comfortable and part of who I am. So if my French is salted (and not peppered) with a little argot, Bordeauxisms, Parisianisms but no Ch'ti or Marseilles slang. In English you can tell I'm from California. In Spanish the rhythm of what I say whispers 'Chilango' (Mexico City person).

With German? Not so much, other than 'outsider'. And the comfort level of feeling comfortable, pretending on being an insider, is primordial to the fluid use of language.

[JonRocket]

I just finished reading Fundamental Concepts of Language Teaching by Hans Heinrich Stern. And though the book is a bit antiquated, the author has some interesting points about this very topic! (As a quick side note, I am not aware of any real distinction, nor do I make one in this post, between the terms of native language, first language, mother tongue or primary language.)

My humble opinion, FrannieB, is that both English and Spanish are quote, “first languages” (or any other synonymous term) for you. I say that only because I would define a first language by the method and time that it was learned, and not necessary by your current level of proficiency in it. For me, the term “first language” is used to indicate that a person has acquired the language in infancy and early childhood (hence ‘first’).

I do believe that many would argue and say that the term first language (and its synonyms) instead signals a specific level of proficiency in the language. They might suggest an intuitive, ‘native - like’, ‘full’, or ‘perfect’ command of the language. In this case, you may very well consider Spanish a “second language”, at this particular point in your life.

In this case, English may not be a first language for me, as I still have not acquired a complete and perfect mastery of it in all contexts (yes, even after 30 years of speaking it).

I hope that adds something relevant to the discussion.

[FrannieB]

JonRocket thank you for your thoughtful reply -
you summed up where my confusion comes from - If I state Spanish as my first language then most people assume proficiency unless they by chance are another TCK. So I never claim it as first language to avoid that confusion, but it is my first language with English.

Zenmonkey
Oh, I love the statement fluidity of identity, it is oh so true. Again it is kinda a fun thing and I really had no idea I did it until I was in my mid-twenties and married.

Today was a perfect example - I happen to be in Universal studios with my family for my daughters birthday. Twice today I ended up helping people who spoke Spanish and bam I feel into my old habits. I told them I spoke Spanish and understood Spanish and then when they started talking and I helped them I switched to English even though they were talking to me in Spanish. I feel this will be a hard habit to break because that has been the pattern for 46 years.