SRS but not Quite

[SophiaMerlin_II]

I was wondering if there is a specific name for the way I memorize things, because it is similar to SRS, but really sort of isn't at the same time.

I would personally characterize this as a sort of "brute force method".

I have always been extremely good at rote memory. For example. in secondary school, I refused to study for a class all year, despite a very thorough end-of-year exam. 3 days before the exam I purchased a 500 flash-card set. They had one term or phrase on the front, and 2-3 regularly sized paragraphs on the back (maybe 100 words or so?). These were 4x6" size index cards. I memorized at least 300 of these cards, word for word, within 3 days, and received one of the top 3 scores in my school, and top 10% in the country.

I'm not saying that to brag, or suggest that that type of procrastination is a good idea (because it's not) but because people have always told me that such things are simply, "not possible".

I have never, ever, ever seen anyone do flashcards like I do, and some people seem to find it uncomfortable to watch. But it's just a very, very simple brute-force approach. There are some subtle difference from the was SRS software like anki handles cards.

Between each phases, one must break concentration by doing something that causes you to temporarily not think about the cards. If you get a mushy brain sensation and can't go on, it's time to take a nap, or other similar long stretch of time not dealing with the cards (such as work or school).

Review Phase
All the cards should remain in the order they are read and not shuffled.

First you read through all the cards and make sure you understand what they mean. If there is a formula, you should already know how to use it. If there is a difficult word, you should already know the definition, etc.

Introduction Phase
Cards can be temporarily shuffled, but should be returned to their correct orders as soon as possible.

You take the first 3 cards off the top of the deck and start with the first one. You read the front and the back. You stare at the front and try to recall the back, making sure to look directly at the words on the front of the card rather than at any other object. You rehearse the card until can recite it correctly twice. Then you take the second card and do the same. After you get the second one right 2x, then you try the first one again. After you get them both right twice (1-2, 1-2), then you move to the third card. After you can rehearse the 3rd card 2x, then you try to rehearse the set twice (1-2-3, 1-2-3). Now you put them in the back of the deck, and continue to the next three cards.

First Pass
Cards can be temporarily shuffled, but should be returned to their correct orders as soon as possible.

Break cards into groups of three like before. Attempt to recite the cards. If you get them right the first try, you can move on to the next set. If you get one wrong, rehearse the answers like before, creating a mneumonic if necessary. Instead of abandoning a set after finishing it, this time you'll set it aside for a second, do the next set of three correctly (4-5-6), then go through the combinded sets together (1-2-3-4-5-6). And continue this on until you get sets as big as 50 or so cards. At that point you're going to be annoyed with reciting so many, so you'll want to start dropping the older sets (1-2-3) to make room for the newer ones (49-50-51).

Culling Process
Cards can be temporarily shuffled, but should be returned to their correct orders as soon as possible. Removed cards should be left in the same order as well.

Starting from the beginning of the deck, go through and pull out all the cards you know. As you go through the deck, if you get one wrong, rehearse the answers like before, creating a mneumonic if necessary. After all the easy cards are removed, you go through the deck same as before until you can recive the new shortened deck.

Take breaks and come back, culliing cards each time you return, until there are no cards left.

Second Pass
Shuffle the cards to create a new deck order. After the new deck order is created, we basically go through the original pass method described above and cull again to 0 cards.

Third Pass
Shuffle the cards to create a new deck order. After the new deck order is created, we basically go through the original pass method described above and cull again to 0 cards.

Done!
You have now memorized goodness-knows-how many cards word for word, get some sleep and eat a cake because you deserve it. Your brain has been repeatedly liquefied, and now you have dreams about the supply-demand curve's effect on the price of cow's milk.

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I could quote the 300 cards I memorized for the exam I talked about earlier, for about 3-4 years after the fact, even though it was subject matter that never really came up in my life at all, though I don't think I really any of them except vaguely now, but it's been about 8-9 years since then.

It might superficially resemble SRS, but I've used Anki and other SRS programs to try to replicate it, and it just... it's not the same. Does anyone know if there is a name for doing something in this particular way?

[zenmonkey]

SRS is Spaced Repetition Software - Anki uses an specific implementation of Leitner equations.

What you've described is your own version of Spaced Repetitions or Distributed Practice that takes into account the spacing effect of distributed practice. Whatever it is called, it sounds like you found something that works for you - stick to it!

[SophiaMerlin_II]

SRS is Spaced Repetition Software - Anki uses a specific implementation of Leitner equations.

What you've described is your own version of Spaced Repetitions or Distributed Practice that takes into account the spacing effect of distributed practice. Whatever it is called, it sounds like you found something that works for you - stick to it!

I had always assumed for it to really count as SRS that there had to be some kind of... maintenance phase? For example most SRS based programs I have used will return cards that you mark as "yeah, I know that" back to you in days, or even whole weeks. Most of them don't seem to let you go back on purpose or "restart a stack" like that, or keep cards in particular orders, etc. Which to me is the way more important part that the being reminded in an hour or whatever.

I guess on face value "Spaced Repetition System" would be exactly what I'm doing, but I was under the assumption that one had to wait that annoying day/week/months interval for it to "really" be SRS.

And there's no way I was going to change it for anyone! I just have been kind of hoping that it's maybe really similar to a program that one might be able to download. Paper cards are better for memorization, in my opinion, but at a certain point, one just owns too many of the damn things XD

[zenmonkey]

I guess on face value "Spaced Repetition System" would be exactly what I'm doing, but I was under the assumption that one had to wait that annoying day/week/months interval for it to "really" be SRS.

Once you've acquired a fact - certain facts do not require intervals for retention - I can still do some advanced math without practice 25 years because I've created a logical construct where it holds. It seems that your cramming and study sessions were at least good for several years. The Leitner equations of SRS like Anki are a generalization and do not represent how we hold all facts nor how we learn them.

I've been able to keep 'thank you' (and unfortunately almost only that) in the 20 odd languages I've touched - some words, facts or concepts are much easier to learn and keep.

Remember an SRS is not a learning system - it is a testing system that helps identify words that are lost or simply activates recall in a way where memory retention may be reinforced but it is not the only spaced repetition or memory process one can use. Look into Method of Loci or Memory Palaces for another example of memory tricks - which also require reinforced retention.

Consider Daniel Tamet that memorised Pi to 10,000 digits - using most certainly not SRS.

And specific for language learning - take a look at Iversen's List Method and Gold lists (search for them here) - they are other ways of learning vocabulary.

[Aozora]

If you were to use this method for language learning, how would you do it? Like, what information would you put on the cards?

It's pretty impressive how long you retained that information! Typically SRS is based around reviewing as little as possible, so you only look at a card a few times in a month. Rote memorization is the opposite, you repeat the item over and over in one sitting. I wouldn't call your method a spaced repetition system because it's not based around the forgetting curve. You're not reviewing days, weeks, months later like one would with an SRS.

[SophiaMerlin_II]

If you were to use this method for language learning, how would you do it? Like, what information would you put on the cards?

It's pretty impressive how long you retained that information!

For language learning, I think the 100% most important part would be to make sure that you already understand the information. I'll try to give a few examples:

1.) You are learning a language that has an alphabet you recognize, and you can more or less already look at the word and know how it sounds. So for example English -> German or Spanish, but not French (well maybe French? I'm not sure how universal silent letter rules are in French). I think it's also important to note, anything you want to memorize or remember about this card should be written on it. So if you are in a language with gendered nouns, it's going to be important to not only include the article, but on the back of the card to actually write something like "noun, female" even if that already seems painfully obvious to you from context, because sometimes it won't. Irregularity is real!

Let's say we are just starting out, and we want to memorize a noun. I think the "traditional" T2 on the front and T1 on the back is totally fine. But! You have to actually understand what's on the back. So if you were making a card for "fuego", you wouldn't want to just put "fire" on the back, because in English that can mean a few things. Fire as in "a collection of burning things", as in "to fire something in a kiln", "to terminate employment", "to start an engine"... which one? So you have to be specific with the T1 or memorizing it is actually really going to... make your life unpleasant. So cool, now we have an English definition we understand. But that's honestly probably not as far as you want to go. For each meaning, I would suggest a simple memorable or distinctive sentence. So something like "I saw a bear" is going to be pretty useless, whereas "In War and Peace, Pierre and his friends tied a policemen to the back of a bear, and threw them both in the river." would be a really good choice, as long as you've read the book before, of course. Now does this sentence have to be in T2? Well, no, not if you're just starting out. If you're still at such a level that you wouldn't understand the sentence in T2, it's fine to have everything but the vocab term in T1.

But I would say that as soon as one could put cards T2 -> T2, and as soon as one can put example sentences in T2, that's the way to go.

And so for every major meaning that you have, you would put the meaning, and then the example of whatever kind, before the next meaning with it's own example (M1, E1; M2, E2; etc)

For things like verbs, it gets a little trickier. I haven't learned any languages that use case really (German, Russian, etc) so I can't comment on that. But I have some experience with Spanish verbs. I think literally no one who ever existed will agree with me here, but I think that conjugation charts are your friend. If a verb is regular in a conjugation, I think it's totally fine to just write something like "-er verb, regular preterite" as long as you already understand what that means and then a sample, memorable sentence. So again "The arsonist burned down the house." would be preferable to "I burned dinner" unless of course, that will bring back some crazy memory of that time your boyfriend almost caught his whole apartment complex on fire while scrambling an egg (true story).

For an "irregular" conjugation, again it depends on the kind. So if for example you were learning "sing" that's an irregular verb, right? Sing -> singed just isn't going to happen. So one could learn "will sing, sang, has sung" in a row like that, which is fine, with an example sentence for each. Or, let's say one understands "strong verbs" in English, one could write that, and write "strong verb" for sing, drink, etc. Like in Spanish there are certain stem-changing verbs, and -go verbs, etc. If a verb seems completely irregular, I literally just draw a little conjugation chart.

2.) Let's say we're learning a language that's... not very regular in the whole pronunciation/spelling respect. Like, or I don't know, ENGLISH maybe. I'm not bitter, lol. I would honestly create some kind of pattern to use at the beginning of a card, one to memorize pronunciation and one to memorize the spelling, and use the same type of formula every time. "Pronounced ___notation you will understand__ (and maybe mnemonic); Written ____notation you will understand____ (and maybe mnemonic)." And literally, do not change any of the fixed words. We want the structure of the information to remain the same, as much as possible. Except if you can make a really good pun, then always make the pun.

3.) Lets say we are learning a language that uses another script. Well, if it's a phonetic script, we're pretty much fine after you actually learn how to use it (Japanese kana) but if it uses something like Kanji / Hanzi / etc, we run into a little bit of an issue. We can, for example, use the Japanese verb 食べる which is make up of a Kanji (食) and okurigana (べる). So I would say that, in this case, we would actually perhaps need to make -two- cards. If the kanji is unknown to you, you'll want to make a separate card, covering the Kanji, how to write it, and at least a "keyboard anchor" for it (a word in Japanese that will allow you to type the Kanji by itself. So, for example, 中 can be pronounced as chuu, such as in chuugoku 中国 (China), but if you type chuu, your computer will give you 中央. If you want the character alone, "naka" would be the better choice because it will give you 中 by itself). But honestly, you probably want to make a full card for it.

Then as soon as 食 actually means something to you and you can actually write it, then we would make a card for 食べる which includes pronunciation (たべる), as well as meaning and conjugations.

---) So as something of a note, you'll need to understand what you're doing before you actually start writing these out. Never, ever, ever memorize something that you don't already understand. It's totally cool to use shorthand (go verb, strong verbs, etc) even if they are just patterns you noticed yourself, but I would say that it's about 100% necessary to make a card for the shorthand as well. If you ever struggle with it, you want to be able to remember, word for word, your explanation of the concept so that you can re-teach yourself how to do it.
I use a certain base level of mnemonic when I'm learning something. If I'm memorizing a passage or paragraph that someone else wrote, you sort of have to force it into a prosedy or rythym so you can remember it, even if it is a little exaggerated. The example sentences or usages should have a mnemonic quality, for example, a vivid association. If you continue to struggle with something, I would add an extra mnemonic, or maybe extend the one which is already there. So which I was learning hiragana for Japanese, I got really stuck on こたに. Which was which??? Well, こ is "こ", た is "t+こ=た" (just said t-ko-ta), and に is "L+こ=に" (just said l-ko-ni). I've honestly never had a problem with them since, unless you count that sometimes if I just see た by itself by brain just shouts at me "T-KO-TA" in a sing-song voice, like how I memorized it XD

You also might feel like you are "cheating" because you only remember a word because it's in a certain order. Would you say you don't know the alphabet just because you always recite them in order? Besides, which we shuffle during the process, to a certain extent, you'll find that's true, but not as much as you thought. After all, at the point, we've shuffled the deck 2-3 times you've probably recited this card dozens or maybe even hundreds of times.

Regardless of the above process, sometimes cards still just ... don't stick, for whatever reason. Or you constantly are reciting them wrong. If you have a handful of cards that are constantly driving you completely insane, they need to be completely reworked. Maybe you need to add a cue to the front, like writing it in a different style, or a cue to the back, like a photo. The way you have defined or explained the card might be awkward or bland. Try writing it more like a poem, and I mean with line breaks and everything. Choose a different, more exciting sentence. Add a really lame mnemonic. (た is "t+こ=た" (just said t-ko-ta) is a great example of a lame mnemonic) -- sometimes "common" mnemonics are not going to work for you. For example, I memorized "parentheses exponents multiplication division addition subtraction" very easily as just a verbal string, and added "PEMDAS" as a cue, but American schooling demanded I memorize "please excuse my dear aunt sally" which actually took me about 2 years to finally remember. So if someone else's memorization cues don't work for you, that's totally fine!

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If this still doesn't make sense, I could do a video maybe of me talking through the process of creating cards and show me drilling through them.
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Now I'm not 100% sure if I remembered this information forever and ever because it's me, or because of the method, because like I've said, I've never met anyone else who did anything quite like it. I think it would be interesting if I could talk someone in here into being a test subject, lol!

[Ezy Ryder]

It's called Massed Repetition. Doesn't seem to be Spaced Repetition to me.

[Brun Ugle]

Sure, make the video. It sounds very interesting. And I'm sure you could find a few guinea pigs. I might be willing to try it. I think I understand your method more or less, but I'd need to think about it for a while to decide what to use it on and exactly how to work it for the things I need to remember. I've always hated rote memorization, but I find it easy to remember if it's something I understand. Then it just hops right into my brain. I think that's the key to your method. When my teacher in elementary school tried to make us memorize the multiplication tables, she thought I was stupid because I couldn't seem to do it. But as soon as I realized it wasn't random and was just a shortcut for addition, I didn't really even need to memorize it. I just knew it because I understood it.

Like you, I find conjugation/declination tables very helpful. I find it much harder to learn when I'm told not to worry about the grammar. If I can see the whole thing in a nicely done chart, it becomes much easier. The more logical and clear something is, the more easily it sticks.

[Aozora]

Thank you for sharing your method. I'm considering trying it for some Japanese grammar points that are familiar to me but I never nailed the specifics for production.