See! I'm not a poor language learner, my brain is just wired wrong!

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See! I'm not a poor language learner, my brain is just wired wrong!

Postby rdearman » Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:01 pm

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Re: See! I'm not a poor language learner, my brain is just wired wrong!

Postby Xenops » Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:23 pm

My question is: how to do we use plasticity to make sure our brain is wired right?

Time to look at the original research paper.
Edit: here it is: http://www.jneurosci.org/content/36/3/755
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Re: See! I'm not a poor language learner, my brain is just wired wrong!

Postby blaurebell » Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:44 pm

In science there isn't necessarily cause and effect, there is only correlation. Not in all circumstances is it possible to figure out whether the activity in the brain is the cause or the effect of some measurable behaviour or skill. So in this example it is unclear whether the different regions of the brain start communicating better because someone is learning a better or whether someone is learning a new language better because the different regions communicate better. In fact, from my experience having studied Neuroscience at university it's likely the latter is the case, because of neuroplasticity. This phenomenon is something that isn't very well known among the general population and I think *everyone* should learn about it: The brain can change substantially right up into old age. In most people it doesn't because humans are creatures of habit, but the brain has at least the potential to always change. In fact changing our brain and keeping it occupied in varied and always challenging ways is one way to delay the onset of degenerative processes in the brain - for example alzheimer.

I recommend the book "The brain that changes itself" by Norman Doidge for anyone who's interested in how to change their brain. I found this book really inspiring, because it kind of taught me to stop thinking "I can't" and replace it with "I can't *yet*". Some sets of skills take a long time to develop, but with the right training it's always possible. Maybe not everyone can become a world class dancer, concert pianist or switch between 6 languages at C2 level effortlessly, but everyone without major impairment can at least get reasonably good at these things. I plan to pick something new every decade and keep my brain always changing. In my twenties it was academic education and dancing, right now it's photography and languages, and in 10 years it's probably going to be painting and music.

So, this thread should actually have the title: Your brain might be wired wrong right now, but after learning a couple more languages it will be wired right :D
Last edited by blaurebell on Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: See! I'm not a poor language learner, my brain is just wired wrong!

Postby Vedun » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:00 pm

I agree. As a key point in the article puts it:
“The brain is very plastic, meaning that it can be shaped by learning and experience,” added Dr Chai.
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Re: See! I'm not a poor language learner, my brain is just wired wrong!

Postby Tomás » Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:02 pm

blaurebell wrote:In science there isn't cause and effect, there is only correlation.


In *this* study there was only correlation. But in a properly designed experiment, with a control group and random assignment, they could have tested for causation.
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Re: See! I'm not a poor language learner, my brain is just wired wrong!

Postby blaurebell » Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:42 pm

"
Tomás wrote:In *this* study there was only correlation.


Sorry, forgot a little word there, my bad. In science there isn't *necessarily* cause and effect, there is only correlation.
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Re: See! I'm not a poor language learner, my brain is just wired wrong!

Postby AnthonyLauder » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:23 am

As a complete language dunce, my long term mission has been to aspire to the lofty heights of being at least close to average. It is certainly proving challenging, but every now and again I do see progress. Certainly, I have learned a great deal about "strategy" (mainly, trusting the process, not worrying about forgetting things, and immersing myself in authentic materials as soon as possible). I have also been working on improving my ability with two language learning skills that accomplished polyglots seem to exhibit at very high levels: paraphrasing (so they can express complex ideas with limited vocabulary, enabling them to start speaking early) and guessing (so they can work out things from context, without getting flustered).

Both paraphrasing and guessing need a good working memory, which is something accomplished polyglots have and dunces like me do not. An important step in "reprogramming" your brain, then, is to improve your working memory. One common way to do this is simply to practice remembering and reciting sentences of increasing length, but this takes a long time, and has been shown to have limited potential. The most promising approach to improving working memory looks like (according to recent research) the "Dual N-Back" games that originated in the 1950s. There are studies showing that the Dual N-Back games are not only good at testing your working memory (the original purpose) but also (with lots of practice over several months) can improve it quite substantially.

With an improved working memory "rewiring you brain", it then (allegedly) becomes possible to develop better paraphrasing and guessing skills, which should (in theory) make you a better language learner.

I am guinea pig for such theories. So far, I am still a language dunce, but not as much of one as before.
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Re: See! I'm not a poor language learner, my brain is just wired wrong!

Postby Iversen » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:36 am

Come on, Anthony - you have already told us what to do: SING. That's what you said in Thessaloniki, and maybe you have a point.

Unfortunately that won't do in my case since my brain has connected singing to the brain center for extreme disgust and perversion. That being said, I have spent a couple of evenings reading a translation of Oliver Sack's Musicophilia, and he delivers a panegyric defense for singing and playing and listening to music as a tool in psychiatry. Something that can make catatonic patients dance and amnesiacs remember...
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Re: See! I'm not a poor language learner, my brain is just wired wrong!

Postby MorkTheFiddle » Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:48 pm

Iversen wrote:Come on, Anthony - you have already told us what to do: SING. That's what you said in Thessaloniki, and maybe you have a point.

Unfortunately that won't do in my case since my brain has connected singing to the brain center for extreme disgust and perversion. That being said, I have spent a couple of evenings reading a translation of Oliver Sack's Musicophilia, and he delivers a panegyric defense for singing and playing and listening to music as a tool in psychiatry. Something that can make catatonic patients dance and amnesiacs remember...

Is there a Youtube video of Anthony's presentation? I'm assuming it was a presentation.
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Re: See! I'm not a poor language learner, my brain is just wired wrong!

Postby Iversen » Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:26 pm

MorkTheFiddle wrote:Is there a Youtube video of Anthony's presentation? I'm assuming it was a presentation.


There definitely is ... at Youtube
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