Lent, habits, and language learning

[Systematiker]

My Lent is like Tom's. Actually the fast started gently a week before Lent started officially.

In theory, the Latin Rite starts being cognizant and changing the liturgy three weeks before, with Septuagesima, Sexagesima, and Quinquaegesima/Estomihi; sometimes the fasting begins gently there, as well. Most have dropped the "gesimas", though some places still observe them.

By "gently" I mean we have stopped eating all meat by the week before, and only give up the eggs, fish, dairy, wine and oil in addition on "Clean Monday", which was the 27th. We also have 3 weeks of preparation, but I don't think they have fancy names like in the West. They are referenced by their Gospel readings for that week.
I grew up Catholic and was Latin Mass only for some years. I miss my daily/weekly doses of Latin. I have failed to cultivate a love for church Slavonic

Yeah, Orthodox "gently" is already hardcore

The names are really just "70", "60", and "50", but "Estomihi" comes from the introit Psalm like the names for the Sundays through Trinitatis. Interesting that the Gospel readings provide the names for y'all! We can't keep one lectionary among us, so we probably couldn't do that, haha.

Church Slavonic keeps me from going overboard in Russian; if I had lots of liturgy and chant straight up in Russian, I'd do a lot more "study" of it

[Xenops]

I've given up dairy...Not for Lent, but to lose a pant size or two.

[blaurebell]

I actually grew up with remnants of a Soviet science worldview and could have chosen to stay away from religion altogether. In Germany you have to take either Religion or Ethics/Philosophy in secondary school though and the only Ethics teacher in my hometown was simply nuts. Basically all students from my year switched to religion class after one year with her. Being religious isn't very common in East Germany and in the end there were only 3 real Christians in the class, one of them was part of some extreme variation of the adventist church. Super fervent protestants, so they sometimes said things that sounded absolutely crazy, e.g. that all the rest of us would be burning in hell in the end or some such non-sense. Strange that!

So, I'm not part of any Church or strictly speaking a "true Christian", but as a teenager I got a real kick out of discussing the minutia of certain Bible interpretations with the pastors who came to teach that religion class. The funny thing was that these pastors never got any difficult questions from their own congregation, since there are only these fervent believers in East German churches - religion was somewhat persecuted during Soviet times, so only the really serious ones stuck with it. This was also the reason why there were no properly trained religion teachers during that time, it was not long after the wall came down. In the end I basically exasperated the pastors so much with those hard questions that they declined to teach the class again after a year. And the result was also that I would have a sparring match on Bible details with the pastor while everyone else was playing cards or listening to music - they would give me gummibears to encourage my "sabotage by exegesis"! That said, those 3 fervent protestants probably got a rather exceptional education out of it and were listening very very closely, although they didn't have much to contribute. East German protestants usually know the bible well, but they don't tend to think about it critically in this way. The only pastor who stuck around for two years of heavy exegesis was imported from a small congregation in a village somewhere nearby - all big city pastors were sick and tired of me! After a while he somehow even found a way to answer / deflect my questions so efficiently that he actually got some teaching done on the side

In any case all this bible exegesis was excellent training for studying philosophy later and I'm pretty sure I must have read the bible cover to cover twice during that time (making it 3 1/2 times in total). I actually agree with some of it and ended up being more certain about specific aspects of my own beliefs than most "proper" West German catholics and protestants I've met. Interestingly most West German christians who go to church every week never actually read more than bits and pieces of the bible, so it's no wonder that they're so unsure about their own faith. I always found that funny somehow, a bit like Marxists who never even read Capital Volume 1! And yet, those people who never properly read their own Holy Book classify me as an atheist, because I'm not part of a church! I find that in some way even more strange than 11 year olds thinking that most of their classmates will burn in hell!

So, I definitely encourage some proper (TL) bible reading and preferably not just the usual bits! There are some real gems of insight hidden in the unpopular bits too! I'm actually thinking about re-reading it again in Spanish. To be honest, the King James version would probably do me some good too, since bible english might be my last remaining gap with English. Maybe I'll finally find the time for it after my PhD.

By the way lent isn't commonly observed in any real way even among the most fervent East German protestants - some targeted and limited bible reading yes, but no fasting or giving up anything. I only started with the whole lent business while I was studying in England where it is observed to some extent even by some non-believers.

[IronMike]

I've given up swearing, which I try every year. But after reading this thread, I'll allow myself to swear in a foreign language.

[DaveBee]

I've given up swearing, which I try every year. But after reading this thread, I'll allow myself to swear in a foreign language.

Nominations for that deserves it's own thread!

I believe for french-canadians "tabernacle" is not something you'd say in front of your grandmother.

[Ani]

. Super fervent protestants, so they sometimes said things that sounded absolutely crazy, e.g. that all the rest of us would be burning in hell in the end or some such non-sense. Strange that!

...

! And yet, those people who never properly read their own Holy Book classify me as an atheist, because I'm not part of a church! I find that in some way even more strange than 11 year olds thinking that most of their classmates will burn in hell!
.

I know this whole thread walks a line, as we are not supposed to discuss religion here. I think most people area trying to stick to factual statements about their actions (or lack of action as Tarvos says! ) and tie it to language as much as possible. We never know who in here might share some of the beliefs you mentioned above, yet be keeping silent out of respect for the community. Passing judgment, calling a fairly common Protestant Christian belief strange/crazy or non-sense, is not really giving back that same respect.

[blaurebell]

I'm sorry, I wasn't very clear. I was not passing judgement on the belief itself. I was talking about the situation that seemed crazy and like non-sense to me. Having to tell your friends that they will burn in hell for their beliefs doesn't exactly seem like a sane situation to me. I have no opinion, negative or positive, about other people holding this belief or about the belief itself actually. It's none of my business what other people believe or don't believe.

And this is why we don't talk about religion and politics, potential for misunderstandings everywhere!

[Longinus]

To be honest, the King James version would probably do me some good too, since bible english might be my last remaining gap with English. Maybe I'll finally find the time for it after my PhD.

The King James, or Authorized Version, really is very nice from a linguistic standpoint. But for the real aficionado of early modern English, I would recommend Taverner's Bible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taverner's_Bible Richard Taverner had a real ear and affinity for the Germanic elements in English.

It's available here as a truly enormous scanned PDF. https://archive.org/details/1539TavernerBible The other non-PDF versions are just gibberish, since it was printed in blackletter (the English equivalent of Fraktur), and so any attempt at OCR will fail miserably. 16th century blackletter takes a little practice, so for those who don't want to decipher it, here's a little taste, from Psalm 50 (Psalm 51 in the modern Western numbering):

Beholde, I was borne in wyckednesse, and in synne hath my mother conceyued me.
But lo, thou hast a pleasure in the truthe, and hast shewed me secrete wysdome.
Purge me with Isop, and I shal be cleane, wasshe thou me, and I shall be whyter then snowe.
Oh let me heare of ioye and gladnesse, that the bones whiche thou hast broken, maye reioyse.
Turne thy face frome my synnes, and put out all my misdedes.
Make me a cleane hert, O God, and renue right sprite within me.

Anyway, it's great fun to read, and very, very nice early modern English. Compare the second line above to the King James, 80 years later:

Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.

Taverner is much more concise and forceful.

Annnnnd, of course from here is but a short step to the pleasures of Middle English!

[tomgosse]

I've given up swearing, which I try every year. But after reading this thread, I'll allow myself to swear in a foreign language.

Nominations for that deserves it's own thread!

I believe for french-canadians "tabernacle" is not something you'd say in front of your grandmother.

French Canadian swears are based on religion (usually Roman Catholic). Tabernaque (tabernacle) is quite profane. You will also hear tabernoosh used as a minced oath. It's like saying darn instead of damn.

This not true in France, as far as I know, where swearing is based on sex and parts of the body, as in English.

[Steve]

I've been enjoying this thread. The openness and calm respect for each other is refreshing. To me, a large part of language learning is the culture (or cultures) which a language expresses. In many cultures, and to many people, spirituality is an important aspect of culture and life. It's rare to find a place where open discussion, personal sharing, and learning about this can take place in a healthy manner across a range of viewpoints.

I once participated in an online spiritual community focused on individual exploration and growth which sometimes got into very heavy discussions/debates on personal matters. Sadly, it no longer exists. However, the main rule of conduct was basically: Assume the best of someone. If someone wrote something "trollish", it was usually because they were having a bad day, misunderstood what someone else said, or did not express themselves very clearly. The discussions were fruitful for the participants. There were a few trolls and ogres now and then, but the general attitude of the majority kept things healthy. I counted it a privilege to be able to learn from many other people's experiences. The collective wisdom of a healthy supportive community is an amazing thing.

I rarely observe Lent, but I did spend last fall in a sort of Lent-like time. I left my last job due to high stress levels and needed to shut down for awhile. I went on a sabbatical/mini-retirement. I stopped watching TV (except for Spanish-dubbed nature shows), stopped reading/watching news, left Facebook for a few months, basically left the Internet behind, and spent a lot of time on our patio with our big fluffy dog reading. I had intended to spend the time working on Spanish, but I needed to escape all expectations and stress. I ended up reading both the Greek old testament (aka Septuagint or LXX) and new testament in their entirety. I found it relaxing and it definitely improved my Greek skills. I also spent a lot of time on the patio just petting my dog, watching trees and birds and clouds, and just spacing out and napping. I found about 3 months of this relative isolation reprogrammed my thinking and emotions to the point where I could relax more and start enjoying life again.