Slow language learning vs language hacking

[blaurebell]

Blaurebell, that 1950s thing is called "transatlantic", and is actually worth picking up if you do several varieties and also do international conferences. Makes understanding supremely easy for others.

Wow, thanks, I didn't know it was specifically meant to be a mix of both American and British pronunciation! It would indeed be perfect for someone like me. I'll definitely keep it in mind for later!

[smallwhite]

Yous guys started it. I thought the questionnaire could serve as a clue to take this youse business elsewhere but I'm glad you're having fun with it. Please split this thread if you care to discuss efficiency, methods, the uselessness of providing advice etc.

I'll get back on-topic, then. I'm not exactly sure what the topic is, though. I'll try to get near-topic

Let's say one thinks he has to spend 5 years to learn French to B2 in order to learn it well.

When I say learning faster, which means reaching B2 in 1 year instead of 5, for example, it doesn't have to mean you stop after the 1 year. If you want to spend 5 whole years on French then do. And if in your 3rd year after B2, you want to drill A1 sentences, do. If you want to complete French in Action, which takes maybe 2 years, do. You don't have to forgo any activity that you want to do. All it means is you become B2 sooner, the same way you cheat à la emk and become able to read or watch movies sooner.

[rdearman]

emk and rdearman seem to take their language learning seriously, so, I would be very interested in learning what they thought was the best way to learn French.

Thank you.

Well to be honest I don't think I'm the best role model for anyone. But I'll give my opinion since you asked. Previously on HTLAL I was searching for ways to become a more efficient learner of languages. Which is how I got introduced to some of the methods which smallwhite uses for her studies. I don't think it really matters if you're a slow or a fast learner of languages, I think the person who will do best is someone who is persistent and regular. Now this isn't me by any stretch of the imagination. I have a tendency to study in "batches" and it is a very hit and miss affair. Sometimes I binge watch French TV, sometimes I leave language study for weeks at a time. I think if i were to be more consistent, then I would learn better and faster.

As pointed out in this thread someone who does hours and hours of something might not be doing well at learning simply because they are doing the wrong thing. I think the example was someone who wrote out transcripts in English but never learned? I can't be bothered to go back and look up the example, but I'll go with it. I think you need to spread your work out amount the four skills, speaking, listening, reading and writing. However, I would caveat that by saying speaking can wait if you want. I have learned a lot of stuff since I've been on this forum, and about myself as a learner, so if I had to do it again, and I could give advise to my younger self this this is want I would say.

Firstly, there are thousands of people who speak your target language and get they are illiterate. This means that reading and writing aren't such a big deal if your primary means of communication is going to be verbal. This doesn't mean, dear younger me, that you should avoid it, just that reading shouldn't be given pride of place over the other skills.

Secondly, I would say that listening comprehension is more important than reading comprehension and speaking. After all what is the point of being able to ask for directions if you can't understand the answer?

This means I'd study on a regular basis for at least 1 hour every day, and at least 75% of that time should be spend listening to natives, either podcasts, films, subs2srs or whatever, but spend 3/4 of those 7 hours a week on listening. I'd also say that rote memorisation gets a back rap. I would spend more time memorising the verb endings and the exceptions. Memorisation sucks and it is boring, but once you know it, then you know it right? I've memorised my SSN and my National Health Insurance number, I know them. No need to look it up or figure out if they are right, I know them. So wouldn't it be good to know all the forms of "etre"?

[Carmody]

Thank you very much for the comprehensive answer; it is greatly appreciated.

Would you mind if I asked at what level you are in French? Are you B2, C2...? Have you done DELF or DALF?

Also, how many years have you been studying French?

On my side, I did the 3 yrs. in high school and have been doing self-study with this Forum for about a year. I have been doing 2-3 hrs. / day of study during that time and sense I am probably about A 2.

I think this Forum is fantastic and am really grateful to you and all the mods for your hard work. The spirit of mutual support in the community is unique and one of which I am especially grateful.

[rdearman]

Thank you very much for the comprehensive answer; it is greatly appreciated.

Would you mind if I asked at what level you are in French? Are you B2, C2...? Have you done DELF or DALF?

Also, how many years have you been studying French?

On my side, I did the 3 yrs. in high school and have been doing self-study with this Forum for about a year. I have been doing 2-3 hrs. / day of study during that time and sense I am probably about A 2.

I think this Forum is fantastic and am really grateful to you and all the mods for your hard work. The spirit of mutual support in the community is unique and one of which I am especially grateful.

I have never done any official examination but I have done an online assessmentat the defence language institute awhile back. For reading I was 2+ (The Interagency Language Roundtable scale) which is about B2 on the Common European Framework, and I was just shy of 3 or C1 in reading. I did much worse in the listening comprehension testing and I don't think I actually completed it. These assessments are pretty rigorous so if you're going to do the assessment set aside a couple of hours in a quiet room.

I have been studying French since November 2009, so about 7-8 years now. But I would be much better at it if I'd studied regularly and had focused on listening.

[Carmody]

Thanks so much for the follow up answers and explanations. It sounds as if you are doing great.

Am definitely going to implement the advice you have given into my language learning methodology. Your mention of working on being "a more efficient learner of languages" is something I am striving towards so your advice has been especially useful.

[rdearman]

Thanks so much for the follow up answers and explanations. It sounds as if you are doing great.

Am definitely going to implement the advice you have given into my language learning methodology. Your mention of working on being "a more efficient learner of languages" is something I am striving towards so your advice has been especially useful.

I am sure I've mentioned this elsewhere, but I created a spreadsheet based on the suggestions smallwhite made about learning vocabulary with a spreasheet rather than a flashcard system. You can download it and use it if you want. Basically you put in all the French words you want to learn, then create some hints, either the translation into English or a phrase in French or whatever, then you hide the answers column and type put in the word and it tells you if you're correct. It will let you filter out the ones you got correct, and try again.

There are instructions on the first tab.

[Carmody]

Many thanks for the link; most appreciated.

I already have been "learning vocabulary with a spreasheet rather than a flashcard system" for over a year now and find that it is something I prefer.

Please note I have started a separate thread based on a quotation from you re memorization. I did not want to hijack this thread in any way.

Thanks again.