Why is Italian more popular than Portuguese?

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JacobT
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Why is Italian more popular than Portuguese?

Postby JacobT » Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:15 am

Years ago, I took a Portuguese course in college designed for Spanish speakers. It was my intention to learn Portuguese alongside Spanish, thinking that the two would reinforce each other. It wasn't long before I realized that this wasn't a good idea, and for a few months I spoke a mild form of Portuñol before abandoning Portuguese in favor of Spanish. I intended to pick it back up after my Spanish was strong enough but, alas, I never did.

I took a trip to the Yucatan in 2009 and, at the time, was impressed with the number of Italian tourists visiting there. Although, it wasn't a well thought out decision, I decided to go with Italian as my third language as I work in tourism and thought perhaps it might be somewhat useful. The main factor in this decision, however, was that I wanted to use Assimil as a learning tool and, at the time, there were no English or Spanish-based courses for Brazilian Portuguese. I thought I'd learn Italian quickly and then use it to study Portuguese.

Well, life changed and now I speak Spanish and a decent amount of Italian. I can understand virtually everything in Portuguese though, having watched lots of Youtube videos in the language, and I even own the new Spanish-based Brazilian Assimil course. I still haven't picked it up, however, primarily because of a lack of other resources and fear of mixing it up with Italian.

I spend my winters near Orlando, Florida, my home town, and am impressed with how many Portuguese speakers come to visit our theme parks and shopping malls. Brazil exports thousands, if not millions, of visitors to our state and Tripadvisor attests to this: there are more reviews about Disney World in Portuguese than in any other language besides English. And it doesn't stop there: on my first trip to Italy, I encountered tons of vacationing Brazilians and, in a few places, Portuguese was as ubiquitous on the streets as Italian. Not that I regret my investment in Italian, but part of me wishes I had stuck with Plan A as I am several times more likely to hear Portuguese than Italian in many of the places I frequent.

The thing is, if I walk into any bookstore in Orlando I find virtually no Portuguese language resources. The Italian section is always well stocked, but I may find only a dictionary and a phrasebook for Portuguese. Ditto for local libraries. There was even a time when the local university suspended Portuguese instruction, but this never happened for Italian. Why are there so few resources for so important a language? Even in a place that receives so many Portuguese speakers?

For me, this remains a major impediment to learning Portuguese. Resources for Italian are easier to come by, and there seems to be more interest in it, even here. We have clubs in Orlando dedicated to the language, even though I've met maybe two native speakers of the language here in ten years. French resources are also plentiful here, which is understandable as there are lots of Quebecois and Haitians in Florida, but there's almost no attention paid to Portuguese. Is this true everywhere? What gives?

I know Brazil's economy isn't as strong as before and language dynamics may change. Someday, however, I think I'd like to learn Portuguese and round out the "Big 4" Romance languages. I'll probably save it for last since now I risk speaking Italiaghese... and I'm no longer convinced that I should use Italian as a springboard to learn it (Spanish maybe, as my Spanish is quite advanced). In any case, this is kind of a long post but it's something I've been wondering for a long time: Why isn't Portuguese more popular?
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Re: Why is Italian more popular than Portuguese?

Postby reineke » Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:38 am

If you speak or understand Spanish and Italian you really don"t get to choose your springboard (although Spanish will certainly prove closer/more useful). If you're referring to study materials....that's a different story.There are sufficient resources on Amazon, I think.

In Europe, Italian makes sense. In the US, Italian makes sense if you're traveling to Italy, if you're interested in Italian culture or if you want to get in touch with your roots. Many people in the US and throughout Americas have Italian ancestors. While Brazil is certainly a large country, U.S. trade with Portuguese-speaking countries is roughly equal to its trade with Italy. Both languages are sort of equally useful/useless in the US. When people consider useful languages, I doubt that either language rates high. When they consider "fun" languages, I suppose that Italian rates higher. In 2015 Italy had 50 million tourist arrivals while Brazil had 6.3 million arrivals.

Finally, if you're looking to practice, I believe you may have better luck with Brazilians. I once witnessed a Brazilian asking around, quite optimistically, if anyone spoke Portuguese. You missed that opportunity but there may be others. I cannot imagine an Italian acting in similar fashion while in the US.
Last edited by reineke on Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Why is Italian more popular than Portuguese?

Postby Xenops » Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:55 am

When I think of Italian culture, I can think of many examples: art, history, food, inventions...When I try to think of culture related to Portuguese, I can't think of many examples.
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Re: Why is Italian more popular than Portuguese?

Postby FyrsteSumarenINoreg » Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:25 am

It's pizza vrs samba. :mrgreen:
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Re: Why is Italian more popular than Portuguese?

Postby AK47 » Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:22 am

Xenops wrote:When I think of Italian culture, I can think of many examples: art, history, food, inventions...When I try to think of culture related to Portuguese, I can't think of many examples.


Brazil! Futbol!

I'm learning Italian and absolutely love the language itself, Italian history of course, etc, but Brazil have a great culture too. I'd love to play soccer on a beach in Rio de Janeiro with natives speaking only in Portuguese. I love soccer and their language is tied to their culture, which is tied to the sport I love, so it's pretty great.

That said, to me no language sounds more beautiful than Italian.
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Re: Why is Italian more popular than Portuguese?

Postby aokoye » Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:33 am

Also if you're a classical musician, especially a vocalist, Italian is hands down the logical choice over Portuguese.

I should clarify - if you want to learn a language that is relevant to western classical music and you aren't going to school Brazil or Portugal then Italian is the logical choice over Portuguese.
Last edited by aokoye on Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why is Italian more popular than Portuguese?

Postby PeterMollenburg » Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:38 am

I think reineke said it well. And I'd like to add to that that in Australia as well, Italian makes sense. There is a huge amount of Italians in this country. Portuguese speakers on the other hand are much much lower in number.

Italians seem to have emigrated in fairly high numbers to a number of western countries, so much so that Italian restaurants run by Italians have become part of the scenery of many modern American (i.e. United States), Canadian, European, Australian cities. Brazilian restaurants are much less common. Brazilian immigrants less common. Brazilian culture has not been exported/marketed to the western world as much as Italian culture. Brazil has really only risen in economic strength recently to validate many people considering learning the language for trade purposes.

Many people travelling to South America would probably pick Spanish (as opposed to Portuguese) to learn since they are already likely more familiar with it/have learned some, have more use for it at home in North America or Europe.

I'd imagine that Portuguese is less popular for North Americans or Australians travelling to Europe too. Since learning Italian would like Spanish, have perhaps more pay-offs for them when they got back home, not to mention Italian speakers far out number Portuguese speakers in Europe, and far fewer people travel to South America in General than Europe.

I have nothing against Portuguese btw- just the other day I was wishing i could speak it. I had an interraction with a Brazilian man who knew very very little English. All I could do was try broken English mixed with broken Spanish.
Last edited by PeterMollenburg on Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why is Italian more popular than Portuguese?

Postby tastyonions » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:16 am

Italian is more popular because Italy is more popular than all the lusophone countries combined.
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Re: Why is Italian more popular than Portuguese?

Postby Lekibshk » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:21 am

I think it's because our country is very new compared to the others. And learn Italian, Spanish or French gives you more feedback than learning portuguese without mention that portuguse is just spoken for a few countries in Africa besides Portugal and Brazil.
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Re: Why is Italian more popular than Portuguese?

Postby blaurebell » Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:37 pm

Personally I picked Italian because my Dad once worked there for a few months. After visiting him at one of the most beautiful places I've ever been (lake Como) it was sort of logical. I've considered moving there and it used to be my goal to live in Italy on a semester abroad, but then my Italian course at uni was just too nonsensical. Also, I know Italy and the simplest things, like actually getting paid for a job or sending a letter just become these insanely convoluted endeavours that need lots and lots of patience and take forever. My dad worked for 10 months in Italy and he got his salary 2 months after he returned! In the end I just never made it far enough in the language to consider studying there. I do have it on my list for extended travel though, which means that I will revive my Italian at some point. I want to do a whole art history road trip Florence, Venice, Rome. So, yes, the culture, the landscape, art!

I would venture to guess that Italian is a more likely choice also because Italians have emigrated everywhere really. My husband is Argentinian with Italian roots and he has an Italian passport. In fact Argentina is culturally much more Italian than Spanish, even though they speak Spanish there. They just had so many Italian immigrants at the turn of the last century! And I have met Italians living in Germany, in England and Spain and their connection with their own culture is usually so strong that their children keep their Italian passport even if they don't speak the language or don't regularly travel there. I would suppose that there will always be a strong interest in connecting to that heritage and this is why you will find Italian resources everywhere.

With Portuguese I never had this kind of connection and never any strong reasons to visit either Portugal or Brazil. Maybe one day I'll make it there, but I doubt I'll have enough of a reason to learn the language myself.
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