Spanish is NOT [insert expletive of choice] easy!

[Random Review]

Spanish is easy...Compared to Japanese, Mandarin, Arabic, Korean, Pashto, etc, etc...

Language learning to native-like fluency is one of the most time-consuming commitments a person could make. Can I put it up there with college education, marriage and raising kids?

Of course there are the FSI figures showing exactly how much easier Spanish is for English speakers than, say, Chinese. I'm finding this myself right now, basic Chinese is definitely noticeably harder than basic Spanish or German. In that sense it (Spanish) is easier, but definitely not easy! After years I still get stuff wrong in Spanish and there are still things I don't understand.
At least it can only be called easy in the sense that climbing a tower 150m high in a spiderman costume is easy compared to climbing one 300m high.

In my original post I gave the impression he was a show off, he certainly isn't (and sadly there are plenty of those where I work), he's actually really modest and nice (although we have polar opposite political views!). I really shouldn't have said anything. I have also noticed since then that he spends a lot of time talking to one of the girls in the office, they seem to like each other (although AFAIK nothing is currently happening between them) and I have a horrible feeling that he was trying to impress her when I interrupted.

[aokoye]

[quote="Random Review"]but this thing of people with essentially pidgin Spanish claiming Spanish is easy is enough to drive anyone who has made a serious effort with the language crazy. You don't hear it for any other language that I know of./quote]
I've heard/read this said various times over the years for: Spanish, Dutch (especially when talking about German speaking learners), Italian (especially if one is coming to it with the knowledge of Spanish), Frisian, Japanese when talking about a Chinese learner of Japanese, German when comparing it to some other languages, Chinese grammar, Portuguese in reference to Spanish speaking learners, Norwegian, and probably a number of other languages.

The problem with this "what language is hard and what language isn't hard" (which I realize you're not exactly talking about in your original post) is that this is going to vary a lot based on a number of factors.

[Stealthy Intruder]

What? Years of study? and I was led to believe I could claim fluency in a language three months into studying it...


Now seriously, I stopped many years ago from telling English native speakers that Spanish is so much easier than English. I was just being a pr*ck (or a teenager, whatever you want to call it) and trying to feel better myself. Now that I actually have reached a decent level I realize how much work it actually is. I won't bash anyone anymore. So my guess, based on experience, is that people who say X is super easy don't know it well or are natives, and if this is the case, I don't see the point in getting worked up. A waste of energy. They usually end up "exposing" themselves

[reineke]

People should feel free to express themselves in a foreign language. Lying in wait for someone to "expose" themselves doesn't come across as positive or healthy either. I've heard a lot of curious statements about people's native languages, including Spanish being the hardest language in creation. Spanish can be both easy and hard, even to speakers of sister languages, just like math problems can be both easy and hard. If you keep raising your standards you'll likely conclude that there are no easy languages.

[Querneus]

I interrupted him and said that Spanish was absolutely not easy and asked him to say something in Spanish. The response (in a stereotypical Anglo accent) was, "yo puedo hablar español." While not actually incorrect, this is a pretty odd sentence in Spanish (the use of the subject pronoun and 'poder' instead of 'saber' for a learned skill makes it sound a bit like, "me, I am capable of speaking Spanish"), so I pressed further and asked him to say something else.

Not to invalidate your point (especially considering the next sentence he said), but I don't think there's much wrong with saying "yo puedo hablar español" in that context. Using the subject pronoun there made him sound more "forceful" or "insisting" than he likely intended of course, but you can perfectly use "puedo hacer" for learned skills.

[Stealthy Intruder]

People should feel free to express themselves in a foreign language. Lying in wait for someone to "expose" themselves doesn't come across as positive or healthy either. I've heard a lot of curious statements about people's native languages, including Spanish being the hardest language in creation. Spanish can be both easy and hard, even to speakers of sister languages, just like math problems can be both easy and hard. If you keep raising your standards you'll likely conclude that there are no easy languages.

I never said you shouldn't talk unless you speak the language fluently, that wouldn't make much sense, I certainly talk (i.e butcher) it much earlier. I was joking about those who claim they speak well a language (suspiciously only when they think no other speaker of that language is around) but they clearly don't. I've met a few and I don't see the point of doing that when sooner or later they will end up being "exposed" by someone and thus likely to face humiliation. I would never ever bash anyone trying to express themselves in Spanish, no matter their level. I don't even do it with the ones I was referring to.

And yes, I agree that difficulty is relative and depends on many factors, that's why I said I don't tell that Spanish is a piece of cake any more. I was young and innocent. About those who say x is the hardest language on earth, period, which I've encountered too, well, it must feel nice being a speaker of the "absolute hardest language on earth", too bad it doesn't exist

[Random Review]

I interrupted him and said that Spanish was absolutely not easy and asked him to say something in Spanish. The response (in a stereotypical Anglo accent) was, "yo puedo hablar español." While not actually incorrect, this is a pretty odd sentence in Spanish (the use of the subject pronoun and 'poder' instead of 'saber' for a learned skill makes it sound a bit like, "me, I am capable of speaking Spanish"), so I pressed further and asked him to say something else.

Not to invalidate your point (especially considering the next sentence he said), but I don't think there's much wrong with saying "yo puedo hablar español" in that context. Using the subject pronoun there made him sound more "forceful" or "insisting" than he likely intended of course, but you can perfectly use "puedo hacer" for learned skills.

I have also come across 'poder' used for learned skills, which is why I was very careful to say that it wasn't actually incorrect (although some books say it is), it's still a typically "anglo" thing to not use 'saber' for these things I believe. Perhaps I am wrong about that.

[Voytek]

I love the Spanish grammar.

[reineke]

People should feel free to express themselves in a foreign language. Lying in wait for someone to "expose" themselves doesn't come across as positive or healthy either. I've heard a lot of curious statements about people's native languages, including Spanish being the hardest language in creation. Spanish can be both easy and hard, even to speakers of sister languages, just like math problems can be both easy and hard. If you keep raising your standards you'll likely conclude that there are no easy languages.

I never said you shouldn't talk unless you speak the language fluently, that wouldn't make much sense, I certainly talk (i.e butcher) it much earlier. I was joking about those who claim they speak well a language (suspiciously only when they think no other speaker of that language is around) but they clearly don't. I've met a few and I don't see the point of doing that when sooner or later they will end up being "exposed" by someone and thus likely to face humiliation. I would never ever bash anyone trying to express themselves in Spanish, no matter their level. I don't even do it with the ones I was referring to.

And yes, I agree that difficulty is relative and depends on many factors, that's why I said I don't tell that Spanish is a piece of cake any more. I was young and innocent. About those who say x is the hardest language on earth, period, which I've encountered too, well, it must feel nice being a speaker of the "absolute hardest language on earth", too bad it doesn't exist

I didn't mean to suggest you were a big fat spider preying on unsuspecting victims nor that Random was evil. However, what you guys have shared with us so far opens up a new can of worms. When can you say you know a language? I believe that's also very relative. If someone makes such a claim should we go out of our way to prove them wrong? It's interesting you both mention fear of humiliation - the great nemesis of fluency. Is non-native language use the ultimate proof that someone does not know a particular language?

[sfuqua]

There was a cartoon in the book Language Acquisition Made Practicalhttps://www.amazon.com/Language-Acquisition-Made-Practical-Learners/dp/0916636003
where they showed a proud polyglot discussing his language level.

"I'm at the FSI 0 level in 6034 languages."

If we believe Pimsleur, you speak a language after 30 minutes when you can say "Hi".

I have a little island I use about my Spanish with native speakers, where I say, "I can read books like Harry Potter in Spanish, but García Márquez is hard. I need a lot of practice on my speaking." Usually they agree, at least about the last part.