Rate your languages!

General discussion about learning languages
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Iuri
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:54 pm
Languages: PortugueseBR(N), English(advanced), French(high-beginner), Japanese(beginner)
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Rate your languages!

Postby Iuri » Fri Dec 23, 2016 2:45 pm

I was thinking about something that could be fun to do, that is to rate the languages that you know according to some categories:

Expressiveness: Ability of the language to express the many facets of life in a rich and diverse manner. Capability of the language to create new words and expressions and to use those words/expressions in a creative way. Richness of vocabulary.

Depth: Ability of the language to express deep levels of thought effectively, ability to add many layers to the depth of complex discussions on a given topic, allowing the reader to access deeper levels of understanding.

Preciseness/ease of use: Caracteristics of the language that make it an effective method for expression of ideas in a natural flowing way and to be understood in that fashion. Note that this is different from depth in the way that a language may be capable of expressing itself in a very complex manner but not be easy to use and to be understood (even though the argument is there).

Inventiveness: Caracteristics of a language that set it apart from other languages, what makes it unique, please note that I'm not referring to richness of vocabulary or expression here (see expressiveness above) but richness of structure. Unusual ways of expressing ideas also count here.


Languages can be rated from 0 to 6, being:

0: Terrible: The language doesn't fare well at all in this category.
1: Poor: The language is poor in this category.
2: Not good: The language is passable in this category.
3: Average: The language is neither worse nor better than the average language in this category.
4: Good: The language display some features that make it fare above the average language in this category.
5: Excelent: The language is an excelent tool to be used when it comes to this aspect of human communication.
6: Without pair: The language surpasses mere communication and becomes a work of art when it comes to this category.


Personal observation:
When it comes to the category "inventiveness", I think only language that are VERY different from most languages of the world should receive an 6 rating, this language would require to have a structure so alien to other languages of the world that really sets it apart(ex: Navajo, I hear that language can be very crazy).


Please rate the languages that you know starting from your native language and proceeding from the language that you know best to the language that you know worst, I ask that you please only rate the languages that you know enough to at least make an educated guess, also I know this is all about subjectivity but try to be as objective as you can.


Well, I'll start by my languages:

Portuguese

Expressiveness: 3

I think Portuguese is a rather average language when it comes to expressiveness, it doesn't have an easy time creating new words although it already has a rich vocabulary, due to that it has to absorb many words from English to correspond to new concepts and things (European Portuguese is a bit different), which it does fairly well. I think it fares well when it comes to creating new expressions and it has some words and expressions that I believe are unique( a few examples off the top of my head: "ué", "saudade", "atrapalhar").

Depth: 5

In my opinion Portuguese is one of the languages with the most potential to structure deep thoughts and discussions, especially in its written form. Portuguese is immensely rich in its verbal tenses which allows for many shades of meaning, conciseness and depth when it comes to express an idea. I only didn't give it a 6 in this category because its mother language, Latin, had a full declension table which I think would allow for more depth, I think that while cases are not as important as tenses for depth, they allow the function of nouns to be more explicit and resort immediately to the eyes, which would then allow the person to give more attention to other parts of the message more rapidly.

Preciseness/ease of use: 2

What can I say, Portuguese doesn't fare well at all in this category, however since it is capable of a lot of depth, I don't really think it can go down to 1 in preciseness.
What makes Portuguese shine in depth is also one of the reasons of its downfall in preciseness, its ability for many shades of meaning immediately creates many layers of understanding(especially in written texts) that make so that one have to be a well-educated person to fully grasp the intended meaning(in written texts usually). Portuguese also is a kinda clunky language to use(in written form mostly), requiring the person to be accostumed to its forms and ways of expressing oneself, the divergence between spoken and written Portuguese only serves to exarcerbate this problem, requiring even native speakers to, since young age, be accostumed to forms that they don't really use in their daily communication(unless in formal occasions).
Most of these drawbacks however are countermeasured by very well-educated speakers, those are rare and they usually can make the best use of the written form of Portuguese, which transforms it from a clunky instrument to a true work of art.


Inventiveness: 4,5

Sorry for breaking my rule and rating Portuguese 4,5 when it comes to inventiveness, I wanted to give it a 5 but later I realized it doesn't have enough exquisite forms to enable me to do that, in overall, Portuguese is a quite average European language when it comes to structures, however, it has 2 features that set it apart from others:
Like other Romance languages, Portuguese is able to omit pronoums within a sentence and still be perfectly understood, in fact Portuguese can have a sentence only with a verb (even though, contrary to Japanese, the pronoum is implied by conjugation), example:

"-Você vai pra praia hoje? (Are you going to the beach today?)
-Vou." (Yes, I'm going.)

Taken from wikipedia:

"As with several other modern Romance languages, Portuguese is a null subject language, i.e., a language whose grammar permits and sometimes mandates the omission of an explicit subject.

In Portuguese, the grammatical person of the subject is generally reflected by the inflection of the verb. Sometimes, though an explicit subject is not necessary to form a grammatically correct sentence, one may be stated in order to emphasize its importance. Some sentences, however, do not allow a subject at all and in some other cases an explicit subject would sound awkward or unnatural:

"I'm going home" can be translated either as Vou para casa or as Eu vou para casa, where eu means "I".
"It's raining" is Está a chover in European Portuguese, or Está chovendo in Brazilian Portuguese, neither of which occurs with an explicit subject."

Portuguese is also able to structure its sentences in many ways, allowing for a SVO, VSO, OVS(not sure about this one) and SOV(not sure about this one also) word order(even though in spoken language only SVO is practically used), you encounter those forms in the bible, example:

"E chamou o Senhor Deus a Adão..." VSO

Could also be:

"E o Senhor Deus chamou a Adão.." SVO

" E a Adão chamou o Senhor Deus..." (Not quite sure if this one is grammatical)

Portuguese has two verbs for the verb "to be" that mean different things and are not interchangeable: Ser and Estar

Portuguese has another feature that only his sister language, Galician( Galician and Portuguese came from the same old language, Galician-Portuguese), also has amond the Indo-European languages: the "inflected infinitive".
The infinitive in those languages may inflect for person and number which allows for flexibility and richness of expression.

Everything considered, I decided to vote 4,5 for Portuguese in this category.



English

Expressiveness: 6

What can I say, for me there is no language as expressive as English, it's richness of vocabulary, the ease with which it creates new words and expressions, the many shades of meaning a word can attain over time, its suitability for both formal and informal situations, English has it all in this category.

Depth: 3

I think here is where English lacks, although it can certainly get its message across fine, it's kinda poor a language when it comes to verbal tenses, that doesn't hinder it for expressing what it needs (or else it wouldn't be used as a "lingua franca"!) but I think that some ideas are more obvious and have more levels of meaning when expressed by other languages, in those cases, English would have to make a higher effort to express the same meaning. When it comes to everyday usage it's not a problem but when philosophical arguments are at stake, I think other languages allow more easily for a deeper level of communication.

Preciseness/ease of use: 5

I can't think of an easier language to use and be understood than English, maybe Esperanto, not that it's simple like Esperanto is, in fact, English is quite complex and hard to master, but once it's mastered, it's a joy to write and read in, I, for example, sometimes have an easier and more enjoyable time writing and reading in English than in my native Portuguese! Yes, it's that good an instrument.

Inventiveness: 4

Overall English doesn't have many things that set it apart when it comes to structures I think, it has that "do" that is kind of unique(and is a foreign influence as far as I know, but that doesn't matter since we are discussing modern English here) and fun to use, but that enough would only give English a 3 in this category. However, English has something so inventive and useful that that alone was enough to grant it a 4:

Phrasal verbs

Phrasal verbs is not something unique to English as far as I know, but I think that English is the language that has developed it best, phrasal verbs can be made so easily in English and they allow for such richness and levels of communications, they are something really unique and that make the language very flexible and a joy to use.


Japanese

Expressiveness: 6

Although I don't know Japanese that well, it's the only language I've encountered so far that can match English in terms of expressiveness(I also have some knowledge of French and German), maybe it's because it's very similar to English in the way that it's also a hybrid language, having taken so much influence from Chinese, and English itself.

Depth: 3

I don't know Japanese well enough to jugde the level of depth that it can reach in its usages, but from what I could get so far I think that in certain areas it can get quite deep while in others its a bit shallow, so I gave average.

Preciseness: 0

Oh my god, I almost feel bad for rating a language I love so much that low, but there's not much that can save Japanese in this category, its utterances can have so many meanings and the language has so many homophones that I couldn't even grade it an 1 in this category.

Inventiveness: 5

I can't think of a language that express itself in so different ways than Japanese, it has so alien structures and sees the word in a way so different than that of other languages...Only Korean express things in a way like Japanese does as far as I know. I only didn't rate it a 6 here because of the existwnce of crazy languages such as Navajo.
EDIT: Japanese has also another very interesting feature: It is capable of producing perfectly understandable sentences only with a verb and with no implicit pronoum!
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