Learn all 24 EU languages

General discussion about learning languages
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reineke
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Re: Learn all 24 EU languages

Postby reineke » Tue May 31, 2016 2:22 pm

Irish to be given full official EU language status

“Tá gach ainmhí cothrom ach tá roinnt ainmhithe níos cothroime ná a chéile.”

I know that it's already in that hit list.

http://www.euractiv.com/section/languages-culture/news/irish-to-be-given-full-official-eu-language-status/
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reineke
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Re: Learn all 24 EU languages

Postby reineke » Tue May 31, 2016 2:37 pm

jeff_lindqvist wrote:
smallwhite wrote:Can't imagine going through the beginner phase 24+ times.


But considering the languages, will one really be a complete beginner in every single one? I think not. It's not that the 24 languages are unrelated. In fact, the only ones which have no relatives (in the EU Group) are Greek, Irish and Maltese. And we know that it's possible to learn a closely related language in a short(er) time. I know a few who have picked up another Romance language from immersion.

Original poster EU23 already knows Polish (=discount for Slavic languages), and probably some French/Spanish (I got that impression).


Eh... he wouldn't be strong in any of these so the cumulative effect of several related languages and long study breaks wouldn't be pretty.
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Re: Learn all 24 EU languages

Postby Montmorency » Tue May 31, 2016 3:11 pm

reineke wrote:Irish to be given full official EU language status

“Tá gach ainmhí cothrom ach tá roinnt ainmhithe níos cothroime ná a chéile.”

I know that it's already in that hit list.

http://www.euractiv.com/section/languages-culture/news/irish-to-be-given-full-official-eu-language-status/


A small point perhaps, but I'm not sure why the author/editor of that article has brought Oscar Wilde into it:
Oscar Wilde, noted Irish playwright and a keen linguist, would surely have welcomed this new language equality.


While undoubtedly a skilled linguist, he did not speak or write any Irish, something he could probably easily have learned to do if he had wished to. The inference that I would draw is that he did not think that Irish was important. I am reminded of Dylan Thomas and Welsh.
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Re: Learn all 24 EU languages

Postby reineke » Tue May 31, 2016 4:24 pm

Montmorency wrote:
reineke wrote:Irish to be given full official EU language status

“Tá gach ainmhí cothrom ach tá roinnt ainmhithe níos cothroime ná a chéile.”

I know that it's already in that hit list.

http://www.euractiv.com/section/languages-culture/news/irish-to-be-given-full-official-eu-language-status/


A small point perhaps, but I'm not sure why the author/editor of that article has brought Oscar Wilde into it:
Oscar Wilde, noted Irish playwright and a keen linguist, would surely have welcomed this new language equality.


While undoubtedly a skilled linguist, he did not speak or write any Irish, something he could probably easily have learned to do if he had wished to. The inference that I would draw is that he did not think that Irish was important. I am reminded of Dylan Thomas and Welsh.


His father "published important contributions to the study of Celtic antiquities and Irish folklore". His mother, Jane, also known as "Speranza" was "a prominent Irish Nationalist and poet..." Neither spoke Irish.

Irish language was crushed between 1830 and 1900. Gaelic revival began in the late 19th century. Few of the early Irish nationalists spoke any Irish. Wilde died in 1900:

"Oscar Wilde died in a shabby little hotel in the Rue des Beaux Arts. Seven persons followed the hearse and even they did not all accompany the funeral procession to the end. On the coffin were some flowers and some artificial wreaths, only one of which, I am told, bore any inscription. It was from the proprietor of the hotel, and on it were these words: ' A Mon Locataire.'

André Gide

Wilde "was taught French and German and also had working knowledge of Italian and Ancient Greek". He is described as being "fluent in French and German".

Could he have easily learned Irish and for what purpose? I'd say, walk a mile in the man's shoes. Only, his are way too big.
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Re: Learn all 24 EU languages

Postby YtownPolyglot » Tue May 31, 2016 4:39 pm

It sounds like lots of fun. It also sounds seriously exhausting. Two languages a year is highly ambitious, and you have to presume some sort of income and reasonably good physical, mental and emotional health in the meantime. While you're planning this all out, be sure to take especially good care of yourself and the people who remain around you.
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Re: Learn all 24 EU languages

Postby Serpent » Tue May 31, 2016 8:10 pm

@jeff Yeah, my advice is based largely on that of Prof Argüelles :)

I've made a small edit btw, got carried away and forgot the main point :D

Serpent wrote:Nearly 10 years ago, I asked him for advice concerning the order in which I should start my planned languages. Now I'm learning almost all of them, though I've realized that my interest in Hindi or Sanskrit just isn't strong enough, I simply like the writing system. Anyway, I've started various languages but the order was nothing I could've planned/predicted.


@reineke in my experience, you can get the benefits at any level, of course until the new language surpasses the "old". a knowledge/understanding of linguistics also helps.

I see that the OP is now planning to start with Polish and Spanish, which is great. It seems like these are two languages the OP definitely wants to know well.

The end of the chart still looks overwhelming, with Maltese, Estonian, Irish, Hungarian and Finnish in three years. That's too much imo, especially with the earlier languages to maintain. IMO it would be best to start some of the "difficult" languages earlier. Specifically, if you have a strong desire to start a different language from what you planned, don't suppress it.

As for resources, see this wikia page. (it says grammar but most resouces are good for the vocabulary too) Be sure to check out GLOSS and lyricstraining.

Specifically for Spanish, I also liked Destinos and this phonetics site.
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Re: Learn all 24 EU languages

Postby PeterMollenburg » Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:15 am

s_allard wrote:I'm intrigued by this project. If I understand correctly, the OP will have to pass a B1 exam for two languages every year. That's either two languages simultaneously for a year or one language every six months, more or less. All this for 12 years. My question is what does the OP do for a living? This language project looks to me like a full-time occupation for the next decade.

The technical details about how all this will be done are very scant. Will this be all self-learning? Or will this consist of a formal language class in a group or with a private teacher?

As can be surmised I'm highly skeptical that this is going to work. I would not bet any money on this but I'm certainly supportive. Good luck and bon voyage.


I agree, without being pessimistic, which I think you're not s_allard, this is likely not to succeed. However, and you seem to agree, it doesn't mean it won't succeeed. It's quite simply a MASSIVE undertaking.

I'm only recently at what I assume is B2 level in French. This has taken me probably more than 3 times as long to get to than originally believed. Still, my methods are odd at times and being my first REAL atttempt at reaching the lofty higher advanced levels of a foreign language will take considerably longer than the next language(s) i'm likely to tackle...

...So if the OP has PLENTY of spare time, it possibly will work with lots of dedication and the understanding that the first language(s) are going to take considerably longer than the latter languages (if we incorrectly assume all languages are roughly the same difficulty simply for the purpose of time & effort comparisons) even with some apparent background in some languages, which doesn't sound like all that much.

Bonne chance ! Bon courage ! Reste sain d'esprit !

Edit:
s_allard wrote:I would never even remotely consider a project like this because I like to pursue languages to perfection. The thought of learning a series of languages to B1 is anathema to me. It is too frustrating.

.....With a strategy like that I certainly think it is possible to do B1 for any language in six months. Doing that for 12 years is a whole other story.


I entirely agree. B1 is useful but not all that useful. You can get by, but will never feel like you're able to be a real part of that culture/language (that's my opinion). I think it's a great (BIG) project in which the OP would probably assume a great deal of cross-cultural communication will occur. That it will, but at B1 it will always be limited imo and you will still feel like an outsider in many ways to them all. I advocate cutting the number of languages down and raising the bar with the level- C1/C2. Or extending it out further in terms of years to accommodate for higher levels. OR, forget about time limits to a certain degree- aim for dates, but more importantly focus on your day to day improvement.

Hypothetically speaking, if it took 12 years to get to C1/C2 in Spanish, German, Finnish, and Polish, then you can cut down the time it will take to learn Italian, French, Portuguese, Romanian (because of high-level Spanish proficiency), cut down the time it takes to learn Dutch, Danish, Norwegian, Swedish (because of high-level German proficiency), Polish will help with your slavic languages and so on (right? sorry I have poor understanding of Polish)... okay I don't about Finnish either, but you get the idea: Master to a higher level a handfull of languages from each group and you will reduce your time considerably in the other languages in each family despite if you want to raise the bar on them to C1/C2 as well or keep them lower down. Raising the bar in the beginning with core languages might considerably increase your enjoyment and make learning the associated languages much easier.

In fact I think if you did as I suggested above, for arguments sake Spanish, then Polish, German to C1/C2 (I won't comment on the others as I have little insight to the structures, but same argument would follow) then French, whatever language is closest to Polish, then Dutch, each progressive wave will take considerably less time- particularly as you would get used to the learning process (what works for you, what doesn't) and you could even return to similar books/titles/authors/tv programs- you would get a discount from knowing the stories/plot etc. Dual readers would be ideal in two languages (one maintenance, one not)- language programs with the base language being a maintenance languge would be beneficial. Sorry off track, anyway while you maintain Spanish, Polish, German by the time you add a new language from each of these families some time will have passed and you should be more familiar with their structures. ie you finish German, by the time you take on Dutch 3 languages later you'll have had a lot of time to solidify your German knowledge via maintenance thereby making the task of taking on Dutch easier and less likely to be confused with German were you to take it on immediately after German.

Further more I think taking on Dutch (this is an example) before german would be easier. The grammar is not as tricky, it's closer to English than German and then when you get around to German the step up to German isn't as tricky as it would have been had you done it the other way around. However as is the case with both German and French, there are many more language materials available in these languages as a base language to learning others. All things must be considered, as if you want to maintain a massive volume of languages, large base languages like German, French, Spanish will help you a lot in learning others.

One day I plan on learning Spanish properly, and Dutch and German.

Ideally as I'm doing French now I would do Dutch next. It's easier than German and while taking the time to learn Dutch I will be slowly maintaining and perhaps improving my French alongside in preparation for when I start Spanish after doing Dutch. Same with German, while maintaining Dutch after having learned it to a sufficient level i would be very focused on Spanish while maintaining and slightly improving Dutch until it comes time to put Spanish into maintenance and utilise my Dutch background to take on German. Doing Dutch right after or before German could lead to more language interference and less language discount.

I don't know if this makes sense but I think the order you approach such a large undertaking is VERY VERY important.

Edit: looking back at your website you seem to have at least incorporated distance (ie time) between related languages. That's a good approach, if it were me i'd seperate related languages by a little more time (ie other unrelated languages) where possible (and put Dutch before German for example), but that's me.

Although I dislike the EU political construct, I'm fascinated by European cultures, and I really like this project. I'll be following your progress, are you aiming to document your progress here as well? Is this your duplicate log in a way (duplicate of your website in terms of documenting progress)? or only on your website? I kinda wish i was doing the same btw, i'm somewhat envious ;) Maybe I should silently go on my own little European language mission with all my own advice above without declaring it as i'm unlikely to reach the end given time constraints.

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Re: Learn all 24 EU languages

Postby EU23 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:32 pm

Once again, thanks for all your comments and your advice.

I’m fully aware that this is a grandiose challenge but I need to clarify a few matters.

Although my challenge sounds like the kind of thing a language novice would propose, I would just like to make it clear that I’m not a newbie in regard to second language acquisition.

I studied Russian at Moscow State University intensely for seven months, as part of my degree (the language learning techniques which I learnt over there have stood me in good stead, and having a Russian girlfriend at the time who was unable to speak a word of English also helped)

Many many years ago, I lived in Slovakia and was married to a Slovakian  (in fact my wedding took place in Nitra).

My second wife is Polish, and I have been to Poland many times.

On my mother’s side my family are French.

In addition to this, I have been to Latvia more than 10 times and to Spain 20 times (to stay with and visit friend, not as a tourist). I have travelled to mostly all of the Western and Central European countries and have close family and friends living in most of them, so to suggest that I will never understand the different cultures is a bit far off the mark.

Regarding my language abilities, the only languages which I have studied for long periods of time are Russian and Polish.

In Polish, on paper, I’m already at B1 (I have an English AS in Polish, which I gained in 1 year) but would like to gain the B2 or C1 Certificate Examinations in Polish as a Foreign Language (Egzaminy Certyfikatowe z Języka Polskiego jako Obcego).

In regard to distractions over the next 12 years, I’m at the stage in my life where I’m settled and nothing much will change for the next 10 years but having said that, a person never knows what life will throw at them. :D

 



 

 

 
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Re: Learn all 24 EU languages

Postby Serpent » Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:32 pm

EU23 wrote:I have travelled to mostly all of the Western and Central European countries and have close family and friends living in most of them, so to suggest that I will never understand the different cultures is a bit far off the mark. 
I don't think anyone said that. The idea was mostly that you need a higher level than B1 to really understand the culture through the language (passive B2 is good), and that there are many ways to learn about the cultures and countries, without necessarily learning a new language.

One thing that now stood out to me is that you're not really a beginner in several languages. I don't think the list should treat beginner and B1 languages equally. Generally it's much easier to improve your level in an advanced language, BUT it does take a lot of time. If your wife is Polish, what's the point of setting a deadline for improving your Polish?
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Re: Learn all 24 EU languages

Postby mercutio » Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:21 pm

I have an alternative suggestion

24 people each choose one language and learn it over a year all documented on a central blog and YouTube channel from zero knowledge of the chosen language till "completion" in a year

That would be realistic and really interesting

Even meet and have a Party after!
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