How to Learn a Language without Studying

[jeff_lindqvist]

How many folks, I wonder, went from zero to fluent in a language by following the advice of any random Youtubers?

Relevant question. While I have found (and still find) some parts of Youtube useful, my strongest languages were learned before Internet was even around. After that, everything went downhill.

[rdearman]

How many folks, I wonder, went from zero to fluent in a language by following the advice of any random Youtubers?

Relevant question. While I have found (and still find) some parts of Youtube useful, my strongest languages were learned before Internet was even around. After that, everything went downhill.

Is that because of the distract cause by the Internet and reading forums.

[Cainntear]

How many folks, I wonder, went from zero to fluent in a language by following the advice of any random Youtubers?

Relevant question. While I have found (and still find) some parts of Youtube useful, my strongest languages were learned before even Internet was around. After that, everything went downhill.

I'd say there was a sweet spot where the internet was giving decent access to good content, before it got flooded with influencers and the good stuff got blocked off.

For me, the end of that era was when RTVE.es got geoblocked outside of Spain, and a lot of stuff from TV3 followed suit. I got a lot out of shifting my TV viewing habits to Spain...

[Le Baron]

It's a double-edged sword. Both a source of endless resources and a massive distraction. Even the resources are something of a distraction, because you can end up spending more time finding and curating those than learning.

I was puzzled at first about learning languages pre-internet. Managing with so few resources, but making progress. It seems obvious to me now that having a lot of stuff and options makes the mountain higher and also can cause resource hopping. Like with Anki, I didn't know why I needed to use it. The fact of having already learned thousands of words in other languages without it seemed to make it redundant. Maybe I forgot how difficult it was? Even though it didn't seem especially more difficult.

[rdearman]

But recent research casts that into doubt. When given the option of “not buying,” it turns out that “over-choice” — an overwhelming variety of options — actually turns customers or clients away. The analysis paralysis, anxiety, and panic that results from choosing between too many options is bad.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/40056969?seq=1


Maybe having only two books and an audio cassette wasn't such a bad thing.

[Severine]

For me, the end of that era was when RTVE.es got geoblocked outside of Spain, and a lot of stuff from TV3 followed suit. I got a lot out of shifting my TV viewing habits to Spain...

I use Proton VPN (paid, about $5 USD per month) to watch region-locked public broadcasting available online. Works for Netflix and the like, too. I'm happy to help troubleshoot for anyone who wants to try this and has issues getting it working.

[s_allard]

I did not watch the video mentioned by the OP and I have no intention of doing so. To begin with, the title is very off-putting. It smells of snake-oil. Many people seem to want to learn a language for free and with no effort. Some people claim you can become fluent with no studying, no practicing, no effort, no work. Just sit on your ass all day, close your eyes, and let the language wash over you and suddenly you will start speaking.

Really, this reminds me of that crazy idea that somebody actually tried on the old HTAL forum of listening to recordings in the target language while sleeping. The predictable result was absolutely zero language learning.

In all seriousness, I think that the point the video is trying to make is that you don’t have to study a language formally, i.e. in a classroom, in order to learn to speak. I tend to agree but I also think that some form of actual studying, i.e. making a concerted effort to learn, is a great way to speed up the learning process.

We do this all the time with all kinds of skills or things we want to learn. What’s wrong with using any of the amazing quantity of resources out there ? The real issue we should be talking about is how to best use the various tools and methods.

For example, I believe that at a more advanced level one should use at least two or even three tutors or conversation partners regularly for a variety of reasons. It can be a bit pricey but I believe it is very efficient.

[Khayyam]

A lot of people in the target market for such videos have had negative experiences with traditional methods of language learning in the past, most commonly ineffectual and unenjoyable language classes in middle school or high school, centred around textbooks, structured exercises, word lists, and so on. Videos that suggest these things are a terrible idea get a lot of clicks.

I'm somewhat sympathetic to this position because I did ten times better teaching myself German than the school system did teaching me French. Any time someone says he's got something that works better than school, I'll at least give him a hearing.

Still, I suspect that most people who go for these videos have had no success with foreign languages whatsoever, so they're clicking out of desperate hope rather than because they've already confirmed that alternate paths can be viable.

To address a couple of points he made:

I tend to think that "have no long-term goals" only works if you enjoy every step of the path so much that there's no need to think of future rewards to stay motivated. But then, if you enjoy it that much, why not explicitly shoot for the stars since that's where your momentum's going to take you, anyway?

To his point about comprehensible input +1: If your goal is to develop the receptive skills of a well-read native as fast as possible (I always swing back to this), I think it's better to cruise along at +1 most of the time but routinely test your vertical jump.

[tiia]

Interesting enough, the video he made before is titled: "The Best Language Learning Apps (and Why Most Don't Work)"
Now I only skimmed through to find out which apps he mentions, I have not listened to the rest he was saying. Later noticed someone already listed the apps in the comments:

Beginner: Duolingo
Audio-based: LearningTransfer (free and limited) and Pimsleur (paid)
Vocab Building: Anki (traditional) and Glossika (listening, more advanced)
Speaking Skills: HelloTalk (free) and Preply (paid with teachers)
Reading: BeeLingua
Fluency: Podcasts (with active listening using Google Translate)

How are some of those apps "not studying"?

[vonPeterhof]

How many folks, I wonder, went from zero to fluent in a language by following the advice of any random Youtubers?

I guess my journey of learning Japanese sort of counts if we define "any random Youtuber" as "any person who has ever posted videos on YouTube", since so much of my learning strategy was shaped by the advice of Khatzumoto and/or NukeMarine (and possibly also Tae Kim, depending on where you draw the line between "advice" and "actual language instruction"). The caveat is that I didn't discover any of those people through YouTube and didn't become aware of their YouTube presence until after I started following their advice.