Learning a Samoyedic language?

[krtk]

Is it possible to learn a Samoyedic language as a second language? It's not realistic for me to visit any of the areas where Samoyedic languages are spoken, nor do I know any Russian. Is it still realistic for me to learn a Samoyedic language? Has anyone attempted this?

[Chung]

Is it possible to learn a Samoyedic language as a second language? It's not realistic for me to visit any of the areas where Samoyedic languages are spoken, nor do I know any Russian. Is it still realistic for me to learn a Samoyedic language? Has anyone attempted this?

Sure, it's possible, but you're nuts. A couple things need to fall into place for you to start.

Considering the lack of learning material in a language other than Russian, you can't do much unless you have at least reasonably good ability to read Russian.

For Nenets, there's a course with 10 lessons on a Russian web site plus the Cold War-era Самоучитель ненецкого языка (Self-instructional textbook of the Nenets Language) by A. V. Almazova.

Then there's the problem of finding people to practice with. As far as I know, the Nenets (and all other speakers of Samoyedic languages) live scattered throughout western Siberia. Whenever they do speak the language, they use it amongst themselves. The few Samoyedic people who study elsewhere in Russia for high school or university would be interacting with non-Samoyedic people in everyday life and use nothing but Russian.

In English, there are a few reference guides ranging from descriptive grammars for linguists like this one for Tundra Nenets and this one for Nganasan, plus this interesting but limited phrasebook of Nenets and Nganasan. There's precious little in the way of videos in Nenets or any other Samoyedic language which you could use just to train your ear.

tl;dr: I can't see how you could even begin to learn a Samoyedic language seriously without first learning Russian, and then somehow taking courses in any of those languages which would probably necessitate moving to Russia. As far as I know, adults study these languages as students specializing in Uralic linguistics / Uralic studies at the very few universities which offer that program. Samoyedic children may learn one of these languages in a limited way at a few primary schools in northern Siberia which provide just a modicum of knowledge of the language. Unfortunately, many of them end up learning to use only Russian anyway because of relentless Russification so that the chances of meaningful transmission of Samoyedic languages from one generation to the next are greatly reduced.

This might not be what you're after, but if you're interested in learning a lesser-known Uralic language, there's a credible amount of learning material in English for Meadow Mari at this site. There are also links to videos in the language. I guess that if you really push it, you might even be able to get a hold of the Mari project's leaders at the University of Vienna who might then be able to offer tips about getting in touch with Mari speakers even though there's probably very little in the way of a diaspora outside Russia.

It just occurred to me that since you're reasonably advanced in Finnish, have you ever thought about trying to learn Northern Saami as another option among the lesser-know Uralic languages? You have a huge leg-up compared to me since you should easily be able to use the learning material and YLE's videos out there. I'm thinking specifically of the 6-volume series Cealkke dearvvuođaid (in case you can't get all of the audio or books, try ordering them from the Saami Parliament of Finland), a couple of Finnish <> Northern Saami dictionaries, the online tools at Giellatekno, Routledge's grammar manual on Northern Saami, and YLE's offer of shows and articles in Northern Saami. There's also a small but eminently usable inventory of texts that you could buy from Sami Duodji ry including even a translation of the first volume of "Diary of a Wimpy Kid" a.k.a. "Jierpmástalli beaivegirji".

[galaxyrocker]

Whether it's doable or not to learn a minority language depends on why you want to learn it. So why do you want to learn a Samoyedic language?

[krtk]

Whether it's doable or not to learn a minority language depends on why you want to learn it. So why do you want to learn a Samoyedic language?

The reason is that I'm interested in becoming familiar with the kinds of Uralic grammatical features that were lost in Finnish due to European influence. E.g. that the Samoyedic languages don't use conjunctions to connect clauses, while in Finnish due to European influence this is by far the main way of connecting clauses.

[Henkkles]

Whether it's doable or not to learn a minority language depends on why you want to learn it. So why do you want to learn a Samoyedic language?

The reason is that I'm interested in becoming familiar with the kinds of Uralic grammatical features that were lost in Finnish due to European influence. E.g. that the Samoyedic languages don't use conjunctions to connect clauses, while in Finnish due to European influence this is by far the main way of connecting clauses.

There are much easier languages for this purpose. Mari for example, there's even a textbook in Finnish called Олмапу, see Chung's wonderful post in this thread. I believe its Sprachbund features share more with Turkic than Indo-European. I'm sorry to say but I don't think you stand a chance of getting anywhere studying a Samoyed language without a very strong base in Russian.

[galaxyrocker]

The reason is that I'm interested in becoming familiar with the kinds of Uralic grammatical features that were lost in Finnish due to European influence. E.g. that the Samoyedic languages don't use conjunctions to connect clauses, while in Finnish due to European influence this is by far the main way of connecting clauses.

Very good reason, and definitely one to study. That said, I don't think you need to learn the languages to get used to those things and understand them. Finding a good grammar will be more than enough. Indeed, perhaps even something on Proto-Uralic and the daughter languages. Oxford's new The Oxford Guide to the Uralic Languages comes to mind, as does Routledge's The Uralic Languages. Other than that, it is very likely that most the stuff you want will be in Russian if you're focusing on Samoyedic itself.

[Deinonysus]

I've studied a lot of niche languages, including Icelandic, Xhosa, Inuktitut, and Sumerian. I never asked anyone if it would be a good idea to study any of these languages because I knew it wasn't (even the Icelanders I talked to were very confused as to why a foreigner would study their language), but I did it anyway because it made me happy. I gathered the resources I could find, spent a bit of time on each language, never got very far on any of them but was very satisfied with the knowledge that the process gave me.

If you want to study a Samoyedic language, don't ask anyone if you should, just gather the resources you can find and do it. But it sounds like you really ought to learn Russian to get the best resources. It's a great investment regardless of whether you get far enough to use it to learn a Samoyedic language or not.

Learning more about your language family is a great reason to study a language. I've returned to Icelandic partially for that reason, because Icelandic is the most conservative living Germanic language.