Reading or listening? Which is more efficient?

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Re: Reading or listening? Which is more efficient?

Postby Serpent » Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:52 pm

That's interesting about audio-only resources in class. I've had the opposite experience, with listening only to short segments in class (and not having any longer listening assignments), and thinking listening is boring because news and movies are boring.

Absolutely not dismissing your experience, but I think it would be interesting to get to the core of the problem. Which kind of audio resources was that? I think a common problem with them is the pressure to speak from the beginning (or at least repeat), and most of them don't have all that much content either (most have short lessons, Pimsleur is an exception but there's a lot of English). Furthermore, I'm sure some (at least blind people) have reached a high level only with audio sources, but it's not the norm, and like with other resources you need several for that. And "learn while you drive" resources are generally crap, or good only as a supplement.

I'm not saying you should give audio-only resources another chance, just exploring the possible reasons for your lack of success with them.
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Re: Reading or listening? Which is more efficient?

Postby arthaey » Sun Aug 30, 2015 7:41 pm

Serpent wrote:I'm not saying you should give audio-only resources another chance, just exploring the possible reasons for your lack of success with them.

At least for me, I don't think we would be able to get to the bottom of it without throwing out the question of language-learning entirely and instead looking at why my mind wanders during, say, podcasts even in my native language.
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Re: Reading or listening? Which is more efficient?

Postby Serpent » Sun Aug 30, 2015 7:58 pm

Maybe I'm wrong but the original question may include video too :) Does it also make your mind wander?
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Re: Reading or listening? Which is more efficient?

Postby arthaey » Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:02 pm

Serpent wrote:Maybe I'm wrong but the original question may include video too :) Does it also make your mind wander?

Once video is included, no, my mind doesn't wander.

Neither does it wander if I'm having an audio-only conversation (eg, on the phone).
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Re: Reading or listening? Which is more efficient?

Postby Serpent » Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:27 pm

egoplant wrote:
zenmonkey wrote:However, they should be complemented with active production - repetition, response, shadowing or writing exercises.

Does this actually help with understanding? Because from everything I've heard production doesn't help with comprehension, only input does.

I mostly hear that in the context of flash cards, really. (and even that isn't everyone's experience)
Also, production (both production cards and any activities) is of course not the most efficient way to improve your comprehension, but it definitely contributes. In my experience there's much more effect the other way round, however this probably varies too.
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Re: Reading or listening? Which is more efficient?

Postby zenmonkey » Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:48 pm

Serpent wrote:
egoplant wrote:
zenmonkey wrote:However, they should be complemented with active production - repetition, response, shadowing or writing exercises.

Does this actually help with understanding? Because from everything I've heard production doesn't help with comprehension, only input does.

I mostly hear that in the context of flash cards, really. (and even that isn't everyone's experience)
Also, production (both production cards and any activities) is of course not the most efficient way to improve your comprehension, but it definitely contributes. In my experience there's much more effect the other way round, however this probably varies too.


True, but imagine that we struggle with comprehension because we are constantly losing our vocabulary - one learns the meaning of a word, it sticks for a while and *poof* it is gone - this is especially true in the early stages of learning a language. Clearly that impacts comprehension. Now, when one has moved a word or concept from passive understanding to active use - the word's meaning is stickier - you are less likely to lose something you can use productively than just understand passively.

Since this is an ongoing struggle - creating a bigger active vocabulary helps with passive comprehension.
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Re: Reading or listening? Which is more efficient?

Postby Serpent » Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:22 pm

IDK, for me words stick passively much easier than actively. So if one isn't actually interested in production (for now or permanently), it's a waste of effort imo.
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Re: Reading or listening? Which is more efficient?

Postby zenmonkey » Sun Aug 30, 2015 11:37 pm

Serpent wrote:IDK, for me words stick passively much easier than actively. So if one isn't actually interested in production (for now or permanently), it's a waste of effort imo.


Do you mean that you have words that you use that you then forget their meaning or that you have a larger passive than active vocabulary?

What I am suggesting is that we only lose meaning from the passive registry.
So while passive is easier to acquire and vaster, it is also the "bucket" with the largest holes.

Is your experience different?
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Re: Reading or listening? Which is more efficient?

Postby Cavesa » Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:00 am

I prefer separate listening activities as my reading is usually much stronger than my listening skills (similarily to Garyb, even though the same fact leads him to the opposite solution). Subtitles and such things become really fast an excuse for my brain to stay within the comfort zone.

I agree with Serpent. The "listening exercise" experience from classes can be quite discouriging. My experience is mostly similar. Only intensive approach, uninteresting content, too little time to trully get into it. Yeah, and then there was the teacher who could turn even the Harry Potter audiobook into hell.

I'd say most people who cannot stay focused on listening activities haven't found the right ones. I get usually bored with podcasts too. Perhaps different ones could help, or tv series are awesome (or tv documentaries), audiobooks, ... The visual aid of a movie is catchy, true.

A question: It is weird. While I prefer my input separate, I absolutely cannot stand audio only courses, like Pimsleur. I've tried a few times and failed miserably every single time. I was having problem with focus, perhaps similarily to Arthaey (who has just reminded me of this issue), my retention was low, my comprehension of what exactly they were saying wasn't stellar either. Any ideas what to do about that? Do I need to continue ignoring Pimsleur (no matter the fact I believe it is a good start in a language) or is there any kind of solution? Are there transcripts?
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Re: Reading or listening? Which is more efficient?

Postby Serpent » Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:56 am

zenmonkey wrote:
Serpent wrote:IDK, for me words stick passively much easier than actively. So if one isn't actually interested in production (for now or permanently), it's a waste of effort imo.


Do you mean that you have words that you use that you then forget their meaning or that you have a larger passive than active vocabulary?

What I am suggesting is that we only lose meaning from the passive registry.
So while passive is easier to acquire and vaster, it is also the "bucket" with the largest holes.

Is your experience different?

Both, kinda? Active vocabulary is not immune either, and especially in related languages artificially reinforcing what I've not picked up from input is generally unnecessarily difficult compared to just having more input. Of course sometimes it's worth it, but not always :)
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